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Old Family Red

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by Del Castillo PR, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Stick if u scroll down to the bottome u can see how many people are reading this thread..And as far as IM goes he has put his understandings where it counts.
     
  2. Staub

    Staub Big Dog

    Awesome post great points
     
  3. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

  4. hammer head

    hammer head Top Dog

    Times change, people don't. The point being that Dogmen are gamblers first and foremost. The Irish like the Mexicans today lacked coin. They both travelled for work. The lost money to English dogs, then took them home. These were bred down and matched hard.

    The English dogs were commonly fought and sold. Best to best breeding which threw high % of dark dogs.

    Over time the strains became visibility different. Later both were exported to the States.

    But breeders & Dogmen knew the value of a battle cross....
     
  5. hammer head

    hammer head Top Dog

    Today the world is on your doorstep....... 200 yrs ago 50 miles away might as well be on the other side of the planet, lol.

    Forget about straws & FedEx!!!!
     
  6. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    I don't really have much expertise on the "OFRN" version of dogs that have red noses as a rule. I'm not much the historian in that particular arena of the dogs. My knowledge of them is average at best, and my information I've retained on them not as in depth as some who have already posted on them.

    I can only speak genetically, in saying what I already mentioned, and that is within that genetic realm. I believe years of breeding dogs tight can and does create it in a physical sense. The historical accounts of who and where and when, I must leave to those whose in depth studies much override my own.

    I know there are red nose dogs that are not in the popularly referred to category of OFRN. They are just dogs with red noses. And, I know from my own experiences that years upon years of familial breeding can and will produce it either at random or even more often.

    While I'm not much help here, it's all I have that I can state in all candor and honesty of contribution.
     
  7. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    As Crazy Horse wrote not only did Hemphill and McCoy own OFRN so did Jim Williams and many others. The dogs Earl Tudor had came from Jim Williams, not Jack. Jim was a Sheriff in the county of Mountain View OK. Earl live in Hobart OK. I did some business with Jim and Leon Kimball back in the early 70's before Jim died. I have the issue of the Bloodline Journal 1945 May issue on page 9 where Jim talks about his ad of the breeding of his Lightner dogs. Back in the early 1990's I wrote a letter to the Gazette in direct response to the issue of no one having the corner on any dogs. Including OFRN. Having UKC so close for so many years allowed me access to many different pedigrees. Who owned them, who bred them, their litter mate information etc. In fact I'll be heading over there soon. I have some I need brought up to date of the old blood. :) I personally enjoy still going over there and checking into things. The only thing bad is, before 1980, they have to go back look information by hand. That's a drag waiting.........lol My only advise is always check a writers reference. I like to use the reference wrote directly by the person who is involved. I'm currently gathering up information from the early 1900's, mostly from the "Dog Fancier". Man some great stories in there by some well known dogmen. Thou what does surprise me is there is so many ads from many people I never heard of.
     
  8. who

    who Top Dog

    If u breed two red/reds and get black then it's obviously a cross of two families....
    A dogman can learn a helluva lot from a chicken man
     
  9. stickler

    stickler Banned

    If u breed two red/reds and get black then it's obviously fake.

    Come on, please.
    What about the basics ?
     
  10. BLUE8BULL

    BLUE8BULL CH Dog

    One thing for sure...no-body has the corner-stone on these dogs....red working dogs were/are all-ways popular in ireland....red/white....brindle/white.../etc/etc...but if ya think there were no dark colored dogs...well......??????????????????????????...there was...just not as popular......
     
  11. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    You can't get a black nose from 2 red nose dogs, if mutation a cures then it will be fatal. As I have showed from a Hemphill ad from 1952 there was red brindle dogs and silver as well in the OFRN strain. But the name of the Irish Old Family Reds, it is self explanatory.
     
  12. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    Threads all buttered up for your return.I'M...just kiddin a bit.you learnin anything new..i been studying pedigrees and digging too. its hard to kick like a bad habit ..lol
     
  13. hammer head

    hammer head Top Dog

    Y'all breeding red noses except EU..... Lol!

    family, line, inbreeding all takes you down the same road eventually.

    Who's seeing Black & Tan is more interesting in the fast lane?
     
  14. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Hey dude how you been. I know I'm late to this party thread so I'll pass on most of it. Matter fact I have learned. On the medical info. Never can learn to much when it comes to that. Some old ideas as far as breeding is working again. :) I'll see you again next year in Chicago? Hope so. It was kind of dead last year. Some friends there but not as many as I hope to see. I plan on coming to Chicago after the first of the years to see Sonny D.
     
  15. who

    who Top Dog

    You can get black from two reds...
    Don't wanna disrespect no body!!!!
     
  16. Staub

    Staub Big Dog

    If you mean two red red nose dogs, then no you can't. It's genetically impossible as I think has already been said in this thread. The true red red nose color genetically is recessive. When you take two recessive traits and put them together in a breeding that trait becomes dominant. The same is true with mice when it comes to recessive traits I did a science project in school on genetics with mice and proved it that's just how genetics work if you don't believe it breed it find out or listen to people that know what they're talking about.
     
  17. stickler

    stickler Banned

    It's somewhat funny to think a recessive gene will become a dominant one. lol

    But, honestly, I got the same idea.
    Is this possible ? lol
    And what does it mean ? What's the outcome ?
    I mean, seriously !

    Could it be possible that this can produce mutations ?

    Working mutations ?

    Better dogs ? The next step in evolution ?

    hahaha
    Yeah, I think so !!!
     
  18. stickler

    stickler Banned

    Crazy shit ! LOL
     
  19. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    If you plan to go..we will likely see u again. last year was at a new location. i hope i can get to more shows this year. meeting u was also was cool. Maybe next time we will have more time to shoot the shit.
     
  20. who

    who Top Dog

    Okay, the way I look at it is,
    Will two midgets have children that are midgets?
    Will two red head creole have red headed children?
    Someone gimme the website to the genetic predictor cuz I'm missing out I guess
     

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