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Old Family Red

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by Del Castillo PR, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. we have a old family rednose female, there is some other stuff in there like peterson and camelot but for the most part she is mostly OFR
  2. TripleJ

    TripleJ CH Dog

    Its just a strain
  3. theWOLF

    theWOLF Pup

    Reread I.M.'s post. The Old Family Reds were a BREED of fighting dog from Ireland. The Old Family Red NOSE is a STRAIN in the breed of the ApBT who has the looks and characteristics of the foundation dogs Old Family Reds. In other words the Old Family Reds were one of the fighting breeds used to help create the ApBT.
  4. stickler

    stickler Banned

    OFRN is a strain. I agree. Old Family (red, black, all colors) AND the Old Family Reds (a strain of rednoses within the Old Family) are a breed. Is this fact ? I don't wanna talk about strains (OFRN, crosses, ...) here, I only wanna get more info (facts or guessing or whatever) about the breed of the Old Family Dogs.
    I'm not asking because I don't have any idea at all. I've done my homework already. And I might have an idea of what happened back then (18th century). My point also is to show those who don't know that the Old Family dogs are a breed of its own. It's just hard to back this up with facts. I really wished the Irish guys on here would have some more info about 'their' dogs.
    I wanna hear pros n cons about the Old Family dogs. Where are THEY (Old Family) coming from ? Own breed ? Or not ? What breed ?
    I never heard about a breed called Old Family. I guess it's just a strain within a 'main' breed, that's becoming it's own breed, because of selectively breeding. And this breed is only one part that made the APBT, and, on a higher degree, the APBT strain known as OFRN. So my question is what kinda breed is the Old Family dog coming from ?
    The right answer, imho, is the 'missing link' in the history of the APBT.
    We need to know what the Old Family dogs are made of, if we wanna get a better understanding about the whole picture.
    The APBT isn't working without the Old Family influence. That's what I'm saying, lol.
    It then helps understanding where the curs, cold dogs and late starting dogs are coming from. But breeding them back to heavy bred Old Family dogs puts the fire back into those 'Bulldogs' (1900-1950).
    Most probably don't know what I'm talking about. Mike is one of the few who got an own opinion about the breed of the APBT as a whole. And his strain is based heavy on Old Family dogs and the Old Family Reds. So what's the 'cross' to these dogs ?
    I won't believe that a guy like Lightner kept anything else than Old Family dogs. If he kept a 'pure' strain of red noses, then it would be Old Family Reds. But when he gave up on his 'red' dogs, then I would believe he just went back to the Old Family dogs who throwed all kind of colors. It still would be the same 'breed'. And I'm not talking about the breed 'pitdog'. Now look what is known as crosses with Lightner dogs, see what they are called and, maybe, one or two can see what I see.
    If I can't get a proof, then I would be also happy if someone could prove me the opposite. I'm an open minded guy. But I must be also a sick freak, because I can't get that sheet outa my head. I just wanna get the answer, the truth, lol. And it kills me.
    I like your new style coming with your last posts. Always great reads.
    I for my part appreciate it very much, even if I'm surprised.
    Your understanding of this game is just great. Sounds good. But you still got upset about a little freak like me ? If everyone, or most, or many, or just more as usual, would use your high ethics, coming with your last posts, then just everything would be much better, of course. But that's not reality, sad but true. And if those guys which you are defending would have only half of your high ethics, then it also would still be better. And that's the point. Peddling, breeding curs, producing scatterbreds, etc etc does not represent the highest level of ethic.
    People who are doing good in the best interest of the dogs of 'our' breed, is which I like the most. It doesn't matter to me what they are doing or how they are doing things. There are many ways. As long as these who breed dogs are honest to themselfs and to the dogs. That's all that matters. That's what producing different strains of different qualities. Some good, some better, some bad. Some good for this, some good for that. And some are known for producing 'bad things'. But that's the game and it's all good.

    "The Test Of A Dog Is The Show - The Test Of A Family Is Time"

    And it will always be like that when it comes to game dogs.
    The well bred family dogs are what keeps this game going. Without 'em ... well ..
  5. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Good luck with the last part, many have tried. :lol:
    You have got some off Jake when Duke and Red Beard bred to him.
  6. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Yes, I read it. I am Ironline Kennels.
    Thanks for the support.

    I am often asked what I think of this blood or that blood.
    Without trying to go into detail I just simple say this,
    "You want the best, I want the best, I thought those were better then mine, I shoot these and be feeding them."

    If a person doesn't believe in his dogs, he doesn't deseve to own them.
  7. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    No, Old Family Reds is a different breed then the other foundation dogs which made up the APBT.

    Yes, those crosses made the APBT.
    There are other strains in the APBT, Blue dogs, Black & Tan, ect.

    That was their name, Old Family Reds is what they refered too.
  8. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Old Family Red "NOSE" is the strain with in the APBT.
  9. TripleJ

    TripleJ CH Dog

    SO what you are saying is if you took a Old FAM dog then breed that dog to a jeep dog you just bred 2 TWO DIFFERANT BREEDS?? TWO BREEDS LIKE A Walker hound and a sheep dog. Im not saying this to be a smart as$ I really do not get what you are saying.It may be my meds, But it sounds like your are saying OLD FAM dogs are not the same BREED as the dogs of to day Kindas like a bully and a Game dog Totaly diff breed ??or just a diff Strain? I have never herd some onesay they were a totaly diff breed. I meen I used to have dog down from decorodovea or how ever and my grand dad used to allways say them old rednose dogs sure look good BUT he would not even breed his stud to my old bitch he said the Strain would not work together ( still dont get why he thought that) but he did. any way my old dog never did throw a game pup so maybee he was right. But they sure were nice looking. and they them self ( The pair I got Off Bat and ribon stuff) were bad ass dogs. The first dogs we got from peat sparks yard
  10. TripleJ

    TripleJ CH Dog

    Never mind Thanks Mike,Hey mike pm me I still have some of your old Check stuff Want to know if you still have any more?
  11. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    No there was only one Old Family dogs, they were from Ireland and they were called the Old Family Reds.

    No, this isn't a fact.

    Well you haven't done enough, There was NO breed just simply named "Old Family" there was only the "Old Family Reds" from Ireland and no other.
    Read my forum post.

    STOP! Trying to confuse things. There was no group of dogs called "Old Family" NEVER! There was only the "Old Family Reds" from Ireland.
    I will break this down again! The part of the name called "Old Family" meant this only, in Ireland each klan had their own group of fighting dogs that was so family bred they almost became a breed with in a breed, a sub breed, The "Red" was in reference to their color. This is how the name "Old Family Reds" came about....

    Bill Lightner never got his dogs imported directly from Ireland but from his family.
    No one knows for sure if there was crosses or not but most likely there was.
    So the odds on bet is no he didn't have "pure Old Family Reds"
    Yes, he did start using other dogs which were black nose. No one knows for sure how they were bred and there has been many made up pedigrees trying to state how they were bred.
    Bill didn't give up on the Red Dogs, he just let others have some. It is well known history Bill crossed his "Old Family Red Nose Dogs" to his other stock.
    The last of the Lightner's family bred dogs without crosses were the ones Bob Hemphill and Dan McCoy went and got in LA. in 1927.

    "The Test Of A Dog Is The Show - The Test Of A Family Is Time"

    Nice quote from Joe Corvino
  12. TripleJ

    TripleJ CH Dog

    Still dont see it .I see the first part of the history of the apbt says ther are several types of staffs and blablabla the is says in print thers are several BREEDS of dos that get mixed up but there is onleyONE 1 American Pit Bull. Then therest explanes all the men and differant STRAINS in the APBT and how the BREED has changed i still dont see where a old Fam or old famred nose or a jeep dog are not the same Breed I see where all the ways they are diff all kinda ways the Strainis are not the same but I still cant see wher they are a totaly differant Breed of dog
  13. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    There was never a breed of dog called Old Family.
    There is a strain within the breed of the APBT called Old Family Red Nose which is a term coined by Dan McCoy.
    No if you bred an OFRN dog to a Jeep dog you would still have APBT.
    "Old Family Red" Irish Fighting dogs hasn't been around in over 100 years.
    Just like the true Staffords from the county of Staffordshire England, Blue Pols aka Blue Paulies aka Blue Pauls, ect. from Scotland or any the other fighting breeds from Europe which help make up the APBT.
    They are all gone.
    What is left of the Old Family Reds, is what was bred into help create the APBT.

    DeCordovas' Bat & Ribbon? I still have some DeCordovas' Coco, Sandy Andy 5xw, William's Red Jack heavy into my dogs.
    BTW the blood coming through Bentley's Dolly is one of very few bloodline which had Cunningham's Boxer in the pedigrees,
    litter mate to Corvino's Shorty and Gimp.
    I have the only known picture of the "Box Dog" -call name.
  14. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Yes, I still have it.
    I brought in Sin's daughters off Traxler's Ox 2xw (off Boudreaux' Scooter & Honey) to go with it.
    I used Chewy as well, both Sin and Chewy was off Check and Peaches.
    Sin was also bred to Teddy and produce Red Booney and her litter mates.
    I used Lad, Brutus brother.
    Check to Peaches- 4 males 6 females.
    Sin to Teddy 3 males & 3 females
    Check to his daughter Buttercup, first litter 1 male 1 female,
    Second litter was 3 males and 3 females, the litter I.K. Ox and Magic came from.
    Sin to Traxler's Ox 4 males & 3 females.
    Then I bred Shannon to I.K. Ox.
    Sin and Chewy to Lad.
    I bred Red Bonney to Ox but I wanted her bred to Burtus but he no longer was producing.
    This was about the time I.K. Ox had his last litter.
  15. TripleJ

    TripleJ CH Dog

    Ok Is That the same Ox that was talked about like he was just a friggin ace dog, This the same ox That my Grand dady and uncles used to talk about?the dog would been around in 70s They are dead So I cant ask them , I Really like that blood but it seems like its allmost gone also, you were the Only person that has been told to me that still has any
  16. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    lol werent there old family dogs in ireland way before the apbt was an established breed? Could be wrong but didnt we use the ofr dogs along with the dogs imported from england to get what we have today?
  17. heres a question for yiz , if the old family dogs came from ireland why dont we still have them here now ? did we export every last pitbulldog ?
    IMO the term OFRN is a sales pitch!.
    if some one comes to my place and asks about a dog thats here i would say " ahh he's only an auld family dog " its a phrase many irish people would use , i wonder is this where the term old family dogs comes from ?.
  18. theWOLF

    theWOLF Pup

    The old family reds have been extinct for over 100 years. The APBT has been thought to be in the U.S. as early as the late 1700's with many well known matches being advertised in the middle of the 1800's. UKC has recognized the ApBT as a pure breed since 1898 so the beginning and end are not far apart.
  19. loudboyjr

    loudboyjr Banned

    From what I gather from I.M.s explanation... Old family reds are no longer extinct... And once again from I.M.s explanation yes thats where the term comes from...simply from those keepn the dogs ofrn are apbt who are bred toward the ofr standards
  20. Dusty Road

    Dusty Road CH Dog

    old family red nose- is a USA strain , developed mainly from Irish dogs that went to America over a hundred years ago, there is some strains around that claim to be pure OFRN but don't think they are favored by the sporting dogmen

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