R.O.M. or P.O.R.

1. Which one is more important in breeding : R.O.M. or P.O.R ?
2. Would you rather breed a dog that was 3 times G.I.S. or 3 times B.I.S.
3. If you could choose, would you breed to a dog that had won 5 X w/total pit time of less than 2 Hrs. or breed to a dog who had won 4 X and lost the last time out game w/ a total pit time of over 10 Hrs. ?

Olddog

"Does the quality of your dogs pedigree run from right to left or left to right?"

 

1. ROM or POR is irrelevant I'd say. I think what's more important is how many times that dog bred to attain that title. So to me percentages are more important than the actual title.
2. GIS would be my preference but I would prefer knowing his background and how his predecessors performed and produced. Might b bring me a better of what to expect from him as a producer because being really game as an individual can probably be the only individual in a line of rough hardbiting curs.
3. Refer my answer in point no. 2
Also, it depends on what bitch I'm stick the dog to, because if I want mouth I'd be looking to breed to the quick finisher with the criteria set out in point no. 2 (if his family prior to him produced likewise)

This is just my opinion....

 

Rom , is better ,,, all rom dogs , can be a por ,,,,

 

1). Imo R.O.M & P.O.R are equally important as they are both tools used to measure the producing points of said parent. What is most important is the number of times bred to attain such title as Saint has pointed out. That is the true measure of the producer.....%'s.

2). Just based on first impression I would have to say G.I.S. Though, in reality they are both just titles that are awarded based on opinion of performance. Again, I would have to base my decision on said variables that were at play in order to be perceived G.I.S OR B.I.S. Titles are just as deceiving as they are attractive. Best not to.get caught up in that storm....lol.

3). I think it moreso depends on what I'm looking to input into the offspring themselves. For example if I were to have very durable, well winded, foward charges, yet they have low ability or mouth I'd moreso go to the Short Order Cook. Opposite spectrum, the game loser. Breedings IMO should be based on traits, missing traits added in, bad traits bred away from, good dominant traits built upon, etc.

BUT, to play nice I'd say the game loser. Without all the variables involved I'm a firm believer in breeding for gameness. It is the TRUE ESSENCE of the breed, IMO. Freak performers, Ace's and what not happen when they happen. Kind of like that baseball movie "if you build it, they will come". Start with a solid foundation and build.

My apologies if I rambled just woke up and "I'm all jacked up on mountain dew chip"!

 

Thanks to you two for responding. Sometimes I throw stuff out here to try to get the younger folks on the board to do some thinking.
1. Couldn't agree w/ both gentlemen more --- it's all about the % !!! I don't give a rat's ruddy red azz about a dog being R.O.M. or P.O.R. ! Give me a dog (male or female) who has only been bred 2 - 3 times, but produced a bunch of quality dogs any day!
2. Best in show over what --- the best that was there? Gamest in show - now there's a quality that is either there or it's not.
3. Example : ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [9432] :: MATSON'S FRED T Won 4 matches. Lost the last time out in two hours and fifty six minuets. Total match time of over eleven hours !!! I'd have bred to this one w/ as many gyps as I could have backed up to him. (As a side note: I've noticed that the ones w/ Uselton's dogs in their background seem to have been some game S.O. B.'s !!!)

Olddog

 

1.rom and por are good but theres a couple things to take into account, was it one lucky breeding that clicked to get the rom por points...
or did it take twenty breedingds to get that special multi point litter... judge a producer on multiple litters and not the one that clicked...
some great producers never produce champions and dont recieve any points, never the lestt still great %s...
2.the name of the GAME isnt BEST but its GAME...
Alot of todays dogmen standards are BEST which is nice if theres a GAMEST in the bulldogs career also...
Freaks are rare and rarely produce themselves but you can always bet the gameness will be there...
3. Not since shade lady has there been a shadey lady and Id prefer a game looser over a fast freak, but gameness cant be the only trait a performance animal has but should always be able to resort to that if need be...

Balance is the key in any success...
Thanks for the Read Old dog as my buddy had a couple from Jim Uselton in the eighties and liked them well...

He went to Garners to stick one to Nigerino as Mr.Cates and Nigerino took a vacation to breed to some of Toms bitches and a friendly game of
Could gr ch nigerino whoop gr ch spike presued... I think spike was 33#er that was destructive type and nigerino 37#er of ace quality...
Anybody want to speculate who would win in the imaginary battle of the grandchampions nigerino vs spike...
And which one would you breed to and why???

 

1) I'll take a p.o.r. producer over a r.o.m. producer because p.o.r. calculates wins and also takees in to account the number of offspring produced.

2) I'll rather breed to the dog that was 3xBIS winner. While Gamness is a major part of the game its not the name of the game. The name of any competitive game is WINNING!! Best in show is always a winner. GIS may be awarded to a dog that wins but most of the time it is awarded to a game loser.

3) I would rather breed to the dog that won 5 with less than 2hrs of [ ] time. In hopes that he will produce dogs close to his level.

Just my opinion on the questions asked.

 

1. ROM, I'd also pay attention to the number of breedings it took to achieve that title. It's kind of a touchy subject to even mention anything ill about CH Jeep but as an example that dog has somewhere around 459 offspring, if my math is correct he was producing around 3%. I'm probably going to look for a dog with a higher percentage than that. Granted he leads the ROM points list.
2. BIS, gameness is either there or it isn't. Granted they will all quit under the right circumstances. It's really a matter of opinion on the dog's performance either way.
3. I'd say a quality bred bulldog has an average pit life in the ball park of 7 hours. I would be looking for a faster finishing dog over a dog that is in the box for 2 hours and in the case that you mentioned each win for the 4xw lasted an average of 2 hours. That takes it's toll on a dog. The fact in the hypothetical circumstance that the dog lost it's last one, probably was contributed to being rolled too many times at the hands of a dogman that didn't really understand just how much those long matches took a toll.

 

How does it matter? hum?
I was never much into scatter breeding so I wouldn't know.
I was taught to breed best to best in a family and that is what we had the most success with of any bloodline we were associated with.
I've owned all the above, latest GIS & BIS winner was All Around Ch. Dutchess.
If it isn't RECOGNIZED by Sporting Dog Journal then it isn't a real Register of Merit dog. SDJ was the only place to give out that title.


I like the answer of percentages.
On the real ROM list there is a dog who was only bred to 6 females in his life. Produce winners in every litter.
This was the fewest ever to make R.O.M. of any dog on there, for males.
YKW owned him.

 

1. People don't get upset, it's just that some folks hate blanket statements like the one you made. You used the 450 offspring listed on pedsonline which has false dogs and duplicates. How can you do an accurate calculation with inaccurate information? That's ass backwards, JG states he bred him around 40x, not all took but some did, but yes he has 15 Champs or so. Lets not forget to add in your calculation the dogs who never got a tooth in them because of their parents. If you going to do calcuation don't forget the hundreds of 1 & 2x he also produced. He was bred a lot but it was for reason, 15 champions and 5 dogs who made ROM themselves and idk how many made POR.

2. If, "if" was a spliff we would all be high. I don't think they all will quit, i think that's disrespecting the ones who proved they wouldn't. If they all curs then why do we weed out the ones that quit??

3. I actually agree with you here, i don't think either is wrong, i think the one thing folks forget is, it's nice breeding to the super game dog, or the super freak but the smart thing would to do is breed to the one who produced them mofos..

Rock

 

Absolutely. Best comment on here IMO..

 

Which male was it? memory is fading me, was it Spike or Bobcat?? I remember talking to Ozzie and he said he only bred Ch Homer 3 or 4x and he also made ROM.

 

Spike R.O.M.

 

This is the hardest one IMO. Usually I would pick the 4 win GL, but Gr Ch Shady Lady won 5 and had a total square time of under 45 minutes.

 

1. The dog with the better %s if theyre equal then the one with the better traits (or should i say traits I like)
2. Best.. most times i think of G.I.S. i think of a loser (unless u won with a flat tire or sumthin of the nature)
3. Give me the short order cook... simply because its abt finish most times if youre there that long its a head dog somewhere n i wouldnt prefer them