Sorrells

Well nobody can say he didn't develop an eye! There is a lot to be said for being in the right place at the right time! Some of his breeding's although slightly crossed for speed and mouth, after being breed tight are still work'n hard! Most defiantly impacted some dog men that stay on the down low and lay in the bush!

 

Good post Trot.The man knew how to breed bulldogs and thier ain't no doubt about that.

 

Elias, They lived in Airazona I know .What I know is that Mad and Skip had some land in Florida and that's how they wound up in Florida.Most don't know it but Mad and Skips father was a Doctor down in Florida.

 

When I get a chance ill check some of my notes and see if I can find some more detail as I was going off memory .

 

I thought he was Calif. or Arizona, just because a lot of the same stuff was there! I would have liked to have meet him!

 

great storey bamaman,,,

sure bert hung papers,,,

sure bert took credit for others accomplishments,,,

sure bert created a family the same way as,,,

maurice carver,,, earl tudor and joe corvino!!!

I consider those three to be of the five most contributions to the breed of alltimes,,,

with honest john p colby as number one and who ever is your favorite as number five!!!

unless we have a family thats stood the test of time,,,

we cant really point to many fingers unless its at the mirror,,, IMO...

 

Obviously the Corvino bloodline played a significant part in the development of the Sorrell's family of dogs and one that I've always been curious about was SORRELLS' BOOTS THE BLACKSMITH | apbt-pedigrees.com... (pictured here with Bobby Smith, whom ended up with the dog via the hands of Mr G.Chance but apparently without the blessing of Bert)...so whatever may of happened, are there any more snippets/stories in relation to Boots the Blacksmith????

Also, (and perhaps at the risk of hitting too many sour notes per post/thread.....lol) according to the Sykes interview it is stated by Sonny that.." To me, that Sorrells stuff is the purest family alive because there is nothing in there but Klaus' ZEKE, Sorrells and Corvino. I like that BLUE MONDAY dog or something with RED JERRY in it."...however he goes on to say that there's a few false pedigrees containing the name Corvino's TEDDY and with regards to GOLDIE it should read Sykes DUGGAN II, so without further ado, welcome to a state of confusion ONLINE PEDIGREES :: OFFSPRING ::WILSON'S OLD GOLDIE :: [3454] by clicking offspring.

ps....whilst writing this I just realized that the above pedigree of DUGGAN II doesn't correspond with
what Sykes said neither, but then I thought F$CK IT, I'm gonna post it anyway LOL.

 

Suffice to say Bert Sorrell's line of dogs made a positive contribution to the breed.

 

good post patjr.,,,

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [299103] :: WILSONS' WHITE LIGHTENING
cant be right,,, right???


there is alot of contraversy over most of those sykes teddy bred dogs,,,
mr sykes claimed that don divines cassius clay wasnt off teddy,,,
ironmoke claimed cassius clay was he only one off teddy,,,
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [7728] :: DIVINE'S CASSIUS CLAY

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [45639] :: SIMMON'S RED LADY (4xw)

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [35935] :: PAUL'S SPIKE

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [29947] :: DUNCAN'S SAINT TERROR (4xw)
some of mr divines dogs have just as much corvino blood as sorrels or the razorbacks...

indian sunnys little man that lost to jones ch gimp was also said to be right off teddy,,,
bet later the pedigree changed to sykes dugan 2 as the sire...

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [83820] :: INDIAN' LITTLE MAN

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [357011] :: INDIAN LITTLE MAN 2X

I guess either way the ped is similar,,, but he quit agianst gimp so who cares his ped,,, lol...

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [9915] :: E. CRENSHAW'S GIMP


razorback kennels also had the great gr ch ronnie that was fifty percent corvino...
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [399200] :: CANONS PETE ROSE
lil ron was a great dog!!!

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [339278] :: BIG TOM'S ART 3XW
big toms ch art is a quarter of mr sykes old corvino blood

ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [106705] :: DINELLE'S HONKY (4XW)(1XLG)
my favorite corvino cross would be the great andre girouxs family,,, culled and teste agianst the best!!!
plus this litter boasted three champions,,, fifteen wins and only one loss to ch hitler!!!

did sorrells corvino blood ever produce three champion siblings???

arguably the sorrels family is not the only corvino blood or the best for that matter,,,
but it sure is the most known as it was the most peddled...

you think of the old time breeders whoms family stayed intact and made such a contribution,,,
sorrels is one of the few...

the javaline dogs are my favorite bred sorrel dogs of today...

 

A little about the Hillard dogs.....again, please take for what it is to you.....source from somewhere just like this one......

Here's something that you might find interesting.

'Pitbull Anthology, Part II' Bishop Hilliard,
A gentleman & His dogs.

Over the course of the last century, many different men have made their mark on the history of the APBT. Some of these men's names have become household words to some of us. Names like Carver, Tudor, Corvino, Boudreaux etc. These men rightly deserve the credit with which they have been awarded. However, there is an equally large number of men who, for one reason or another, have not gotten the recognition that they righly deserve. One of these men is Bishop Hilliard. I have known of Bishop Hilliard for a preety good while, I've known him by phone and by letter for a short time. And it was only recently that I had the opportunity to meet him in person. I want the readers to know that Bishop is a perfect gentleman....being the gentleman that he is, Bishop dosn't care to grab a lot of attention. But something he recently wrote to me in a letter helps to explain his feelings. "I am sure that you are getting tired of all of this, just as I am. It really dosn't matter to me any more. I just don't want people to think that I tried to steal someone else's success" Behond what all of this means to Bishop, I think that it is important to those that are breeding the Hilliard dogs today, thay they know just what took place during the time when the foundations of their particular foundations where being formed. With that in mind, let us look at some of the history behind the Hilliard dogs.
The foundation of the Hilliard line of dogs is a dog that is today known as Sorrells' Red Jerry. Many people assume that because of the name, he must have been born and bred on the yard of Bert Sorrells'. Actually, as early ADBA records indicate, he was bred on the yard of Indian Sunny, ST. Marie. On the pedigree certificate dated September 6th 1973, it shows the dog with the registration name 'Hilliards' Red Jerry' born Oct. 20th 1970. In Bishop's words, "to start with, my brother Newt and I bought a bitch called Boobs, and her half brother Red Jerry from the gentleman. We bought Boobs in 1972, and Red Jerry in 1973. Red Jerry, at this time, was about 3 yrs old, and he had already produced 2 good dogs by the time that the Hilliards got him. These were Grider's Ch.Raja and Mr.Hoobs, the later dog was a black and tan that had taken 2 good shows and was on his way to his Ch'ship. In Bishop's words "We had gotten this blood from Freddy Jones, and Richard Tannehill. The gentleman wrote on the pedigrees (name not to be changed.) The papers that came back to us read, 'owner Hilliards', name, Sorrells' Red Jerry' This one little mistake cost me my breeding and any credit that I might have had. In close is a copy of the registration certificate. You see the gentleman was neither the breeder, or the owner. By the way, I have the cancelled cheques for both dogs in a safe deposit box in Porterville. Frank Ferris had been registering my dogs up until 1972, and somewhere in the transfer to the Greenwoods' I lost contact. Some time after we bought Red Jerry, his name was changed to Sorrells' Red Jerry. I did not realise what a nightmare this would cause later. I have not been able to get Sorrells' name off my dogs, and will not be able to in my life time. Just for future references, why I am doing this......notice that the dogs name is Sorrells' Red Jerry, and he is not the owner. The reason that I have used the name gentleman, is that in 1978, when I found out what really happened, all of the name changes I called the gentleman and he said I would have to treat him like a gentleman and that he would do the same for me. Gives a new meaning to the word 'gentleman' Huh. Anyway, Red Jerry was a 2XW in his last show, he ruptured a heart valve and had to have surgery. He would never be used again for anything again but stud service. In 1977 we gave him back to the gentleman, the vet had told me that the end was in sight. As was the case, he passed on in 1978 of a massive heart attack, ending the carreer of one of the best producers that ever lived. Of those that are out there right now, 2 of his Ch.s are credited to other dogs. But we will talk about that in another issue.
So Red Jerry lived 8 yrs, and of those 8 yrs, the Hilliards owned him for 5. In that time span he did produce some good dogs. When bred to his half sister, Tammy (Boobs) he produced a dog called 'Chopper'. As Bishop says, I loaned him to Sorrells', a 35lb male, who was by far the best dog I ever owned. In testing him we had to take him off the old Junk Yard dog at :30. He was killing Sorrells' Dugan dog at :25. He had to take him off of Marshall's Golden Boy, brother to Dugan, he was down 6 times that I know of. The last time we had to leave him in Los Angeles to get well. We were told 2 wks later that he had died. 2 years later I saw him in one of the magazines as the sire of a litter of puppies. I should have learned my lesson long before I did.
THIS IS PART OF WHAT WAS PRINTED IN 'PITBULL ANTHOLOGY' IF THE READERS ARE INTERESTED, I WILL WRITE OUT MORE AS THIS WAS JUST AN INSIGHT INTO THE BEGINNING OF WHAT HAPPENED. AS YOU READ DEEPER INTO WHAT HILLIARD WROTE, YOU REALLY GET INTO THE NITTY GRITTY, AND YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ALL OF THE GREAT DOGS IN MOST OF YOUR PEDIGREES WERE OWNED AND BRED BY THE HILLIARDS. LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT MORE OF THE STORY....PREACHER.


Pit Bull Anthology, Part II, Bishop Hilliard..A Gentleman and his dogs.
....On Sept 1st 1973 Red Jerry sired a litter of pups, after being bred to a bitch called Queenie. Both the breeding and the whelping took place under the care of the Hilliards. Bishop produced for me copies of ADBA registration certificates for 2 dogs born on Sept 1st 1973. The papers are for Renolds Ted, and Renolds Tulawanee, dated Nov 28th 1973, and they show Violet Renolds as the breeder. The dog that we are really concerned with that comes from this litter, is the dog that has come to be known as Sorrells' Goober. In Bishops words "this dog, Goober, is a litter mate to Renolds Ted and Renolds Tulawanee. The reason that Mrs Renolds is listed as the breeder is because Willy Simmonds, a friend of mine, was keeping Queenie for Mrs Renolds sister, Edna White, who at the time was ill. We tested Queenie, and she looked great. We decided to buy her, I paid $200.00 and Simmonds was to pay $100.00, I beleive. When the puppies were born, Simmonds had not paid his part yet. Queenie was still in Mrs Renolds name, and was UKC registered. Mrs White agreed to take Queenie back plus 1 puppy, and that she would register into the ADBA and as you can see, legally she was the breeder"
As most of our knowledgable readers have realised by now, it is a quite common fact that Goober has always been shown to have been out of Red Jerry, and a bitch called Sorrells' Choya. This is what Bishop has to say about that.
"I never transfered any of these dogs (the Red Jerry/Queenie litter) into my name until 1977, when I decided to breed Goober to the Crazy Snookie bitch, at which time Sorrells' said he knew Greenwood real good, and that he would have the certificate changed into my name, and also have his name changed to Goober. I do not remember his registration name. He did this, but surely he did not know how to spell Goober, instead he registered him as Gober, and Sorrells' as the breeder. He also changed the Dam from Renolds Queenie to Sorrells' Choya. Notice that he is 3 1/2 yrs old and has been proven as a great dog. Remember that I told you that Choya died in 1975. Indian Sunny handling my Goober dog, Sorrells' handling the Choya bitch, rank cur.
THE ARTICLE GOES ON TO EXPLAIN GOOBERS' MATCHES.
...."Bert Clouse said after the match that it was the best Ch.ship match he had ever seen. A hell of a good match that a lot of people came a long way to see and they won't forget it soon."
There is no doubt that Goober was one of the great dogs of our day. Born and bred, and raised under the control of the Hilliards, they never got any of the credit they deserved. As Bishop put it to me in a letter, "I would like to clear up the matter about the breeding and ownership of Ch.Goober. Remember that my brother and I had entered into a common consent agreement with Sorrells' that he would condidtion and handle for us. He never claimed ownership to Goober until after he died. He made a public statement that he would have the convention trophy's engraved and sent to me. I was there, Bert Clouse and his wife heard the statements. When I let him have Goober for his last show, I did not know that Sorrells' was moving to Arizona. In the middle of his keep, he called me and said he was moving to Tucson. He had car trouble and was on the road for 3 days.
Bishop Hilliard also bred Sorrells' Bull to Crazy Snookie. This was the breeding that produced Shoshone, Mug Wump, and Red Eagle. In Bishops words "Sorrells' also registered Snookie for me, the same story. I made the second and last breeding of Crazy Snookie myself, no conections as I was the owner of both Sire and Dam. The last breeding produced Goober II, who was also known as Buster, Hilliards Preacher, who is known as Sorrells' Shorty the Preacher (or STP for short), Hilliards Joker who was also known as Shadrack, Hilliards Tioga Tim, who was known as Sorrells' Jonny Walker Red, Hilliards Delilah, Miss Ann, and Hilliards and Mims Ruby Red.
Any of our knowledgable readers will recognise from the names on this list, that it is a variatable hall of fame of good, solid, game, pit bull dogs. For whatever reason, the Hilliards name has not been given it's proper place, and this article is an atempt to do this. It is hoped that it will be of interest to everyone, and in particular, those who are breeding this line of dogs today.
HOPE YOU ENJOYED THE REST OF THE ARTICLE AS IT IS INTERESTING TO KNOW THAT BEHIND THE BREEDINGS OF SOME OF THE SORRELLS' DOGS, THAT IT WAS IN FACT TWO DIFFERENT, AND UNMENTIONED PEOPLE WHO WERE THE BRAINS BEHIND THE BREEDINGS. THIS ARTICLE IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM BERT, AS WITHOUT HIM AND HIS SHAPING, THESE DOGS MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN AS WELL KNOW. BUT WITHOUT THE HILLIARDS, THESE DOGS WOULD NOT HAVE EXISTED AT ALL....

 

aaahhh,,, good read!!!

 

Very nice read!!!! Could it be like A couple people I've known, they NEVER wanted there name linked to combat dogs, for various reasons? Mr. Hilllard another name I heard mentioned in closed circles! Never heard A bad word about him quite the opposite! There were A few professional's and people in public service who would never take the chance of putting there name to paper! They just wanted to compete and breed dogs and cocks on A high level with out notoriety. I was privy to some info, people taking credit for somebodys hard work just to sell pups, and pricey stud service! Others pay enormous amounts for curs, just to have A friend of the seller match back into said cur for large amounts, knowing the whole time the dog there matched into had A time clock in there ass!! Then blow it up in the magazine! A major reason I have such strong issues with dog peddlers!
Now that being said I'm not referring to Mr. Sorrells! Or anybody in this post. All this is history because as we all know it is illegal! All I can say is when introducing new blood, and breeding for genetic traits ALWAYS do your home work, talk to several people you trust before breeding that gyp or buying that pup! Wish I was better at putting my words to ink! LOL

 

you are right about bert getting credit for the breedings on some dogs. i was there when bert got shorty and knew the boys he bought him from. Why do you think Shorty turned into STP(shorty the preacher). He wasn't 40 country miles of being a RED JERRY dog and that is the truth, no bull sh*t. STP was a great dog but got Sorrels papers slapped on him.
Just like Roadblock was out of Shoshone, not Bull, i helped get the breeding done an saw first hand. Just Check your own dogs and don't depend on all those old peds being right, at least bert used good dogs. some other "great" breeders slapped peds on trash

 

I watched the original Preacher dog Quit AND later the first Preacher replacement quit. Shorty was the second replacement a was a great dog and this dog was the sire to the Ladybug litter that produced Joe Testiment
. That is how preacher disappeared and Shorty became STP-shorty the preacher

 

Randy was an important reason bert was successful in Arizona, to be accurate, Jean (not referring to Joan) was a big influence on the Sorrel's dogs.
Mad & Skip were the backbone of the performance Sorrel's dogs when bert went to Florida.
And in my opinion the bellon club Lara members did the most forward work in tuning these dogs into some of the finest in the world

 

Thanks for the read guys,I just enjoy discussing the old dogs Bob .They are so far back in my peds it surely doesn't matter lol.I still enjoy learning about them,I learn something new all the time.i appreciate the info Bob.

 

They bred that Red Jerry dog pretty early for him to have produced a Ch before Mr Hilliard got him. I'm sure the dog didn't make Ch by the time Red Jerry was 3, maybe he did. I wonder if they tested, then bred, or just bred him? Turned out good either way

 

Good read thanks, now I need to get my hands on a copy of this book.

Can anyone point me in the right direction. Thanks

 

Man after Red Jerry, Raja, and several others, I went to the source Stu Fowler!!! Took A late starting Bullyson X Mendiicino (deep game) gyp into Stu! Probably, close to one of his last breeding's. One of the best breeding's I ever made! Although A litter of 5 and raising 4 ALL of those 4 went on to multiple wins and producers, one of my major foundation dogs!
Bobm you are absolutely correct about the Bellon Club from my angle and the people I knew they just RAN with that blood!!!!

 

Good reads Bobm,,,

as you say at least they come from good dogs regardless of the papers,,,

how is the real shorty (STP#3) really bred???