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Starting pups.

Discussion in 'Patterdale Terriers' started by kalenhcc, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. kalenhcc

    kalenhcc Big Dog

    What methods do ya’ll use to get pups started? Also how old? Ive heard of using rats to get them started. Im planning on doing some squirrel hunting and getting her started on pack rats this Spring. She will be 5 months old. Looking to move on to coons and other critters later on when she’s older.
    david63 likes this.
  2. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    Lol I was thinking of a different "started" from the title
    GamedogCorner and AGK like this.
  3. palooka

    palooka Premium Member Premium Member

    take her out to see older dogs working , the scent and sounds should fire her up and it shouldnt take to long for the penny to drop, your schooling so be careful not to overmatch, loads of small virtories. ive a friend thats swears by a few mice loose in a bath tub ... though he has to wait until the wife is out :)
    david63, Soze the killer and SMD760 like this.
  4. Lrs

    Lrs Big Dog

    One rat for a guarantee kill start now.
    david63 and Soze the killer like this.
  5. Thats a real good answer..
    and the mice part to!
    start it on mice really young i would of mice cant hurt even a pup the way a rat can.
    good method!
    david63 likes this.
  6. Lrs

    Lrs Big Dog

    I don’t like using mice it can encourage a young dog to eat the vermin.
    david63 and Soze the killer like this.
  7. palooka

    palooka Premium Member Premium Member

    i think some dogs are just like that Lrs, ive a young working bred beardie collie here that will kill and eat rats.
    david63 and Soze the killer like this.
  8. Yeah your gonna get a dog what eats rats now and then if ya hunt them.
    ive seen a few dogs gobble down makes some dogs sick as fuck.but once they been sick they normally ok.

    The more you rat the more imunitty the dog will get.
    Krull and david63 like this.
  9. How do you find the Bearded Collies mate?
    im a fan of any working Collies...real brainy dogs that can do most things whats asked of them..
    its rear you hear of the beardie in its working form these day..all the best with it mate.
  10. palooka

    palooka Premium Member Premium Member

    i like him , he's tough as nails, great coat, prefers to sleep outside rather than a warm kennel,good prey drive, i got him as a stud to put over a couple of collie lurcher bitches i have, i just enjoy mooching about the hills with them and a little plummer, not really hunting , more like stress relieve from keeping bulls .
    david63 and Soze the killer like this.
  11. Awesome mate...and im a fan of Collie Lurchers to.
    love the way you say the beardie would rather sleep outside.should add even more of a tougher constitution to your Lurchers..
    hows the Plummer?.sounds like a nice little team you team you have indeed.
  12. I thought beardies were basiclly exticnt..i no theres show ones of them but i did not think true working ones what sleep out side still exist..(super awesome man they still with us man:-)
    mad the way you have a plummer terrier to..i beilve Brian most defintly kept working beardies..and he rated them highly.i belive Brians ones came from the Highlands of Scotland somewere.
    he tells a story in one of his books(not sure witch book)about the origen of the beardie, saying that when trade in Scotland in the 1600s, opened up with Poland.that Scottish sheep at that time were prized throughout Europe and the Polish had came to Scotland to buy some.but as they were putting the sheep up the plank on to the boat, the boat rocked and scared the sheep.and none of the local Scottish Collies could get the scared sheep on the one of the Polish buyers went on board and produced a pair(dog and bitch)of bigger more tougher broader skulled Collies what set about the sheep with vengence,and herded them succsefully on to the its said the Scottish traded two prize rams for the dog and bitch and the rest is history.
    aparently thats there hisory..or more recent a type like that existed as long ago as the Celts,and thats obviously who ditrebuted them all over most of Eurpoe.

    Keep us posted please mate on this Beardie you im more then intrested in this rear type of Collie.
    all the best mate..and its really nice to her you own one of these dogs!

    david63 likes this.
  13. Lrs

    Lrs Big Dog

    Think I’ve said similar before soze but take everything Plummer said with a rock of salt the man was a compulsive liar who used to ask men who did work there dogs for stories then he’d combine them in to something that would sell better. He even said that his white German shepherds was the best type of dog around for ferreting lmfao.
    palooka and Soze the killer like this.
  14. I no some of his things were mad mate...but his history on dogs is pretty acurate. not sure were he come up with the GS as the best Ferreting dog?but he suggested a even crazier one lol.a cavarlier king chalers spanial?even more of a crazy suggetion then the GS lol...

    The Beardie origen Lrs, is just a suggestion by him to if im honset mate.
    its a nice romantasisd suggestion, but now ive just thought about it, no name of the boat or nothing was metiond.and its just like saying the Kerry swam of a boat that was stranded in Ireland...many dog origens are like many for my much of a covinient way to right up on history i say..

    I did also say the Celts probably had these dogs and took them all over Europe.and to be quite honest many other countrys apart from Poland had this type of a matter of fact, many other countrys to this day still have a similare type to this dog.

    So the Plummer theory on the suggestion of the Beardie dose seem a bit romatised.i do admit that..i thought that anyway if im being honest, but i thought ide just write what he thought anyways,as it might be intresting...
    Plummers suggestion btw is taken from G.Willisons book Bearded Collies..aparently these ones were sold buy Kazimierz Grabski in 1514.
    so theres no name of the boat but there a name of a person..
    im really not sure on the origens of these dogs lol.
  15. Lrs

    Lrs Big Dog

    No doubt mate as he did ask a lot of questions it’s one of many points of conflict people have with him is that border collies are the best at there job in the same way apbt are. So there’s not a lot of need to reinvent the wheel so to speak..he spoke highly of Hancock lurchers and there not worth kennel space never was. The border is the better dog from what I’ve seen personally however far be it from me to put him down altogether as he knew a thing or two about ratting.
    david63 and Soze the killer like this.
  16. Borders are real awesome a real fan.
    theres no denying the working ones of farms are the best.infact they can do a lot of other things seems(or in my opinion) the bigger Beardie seemed to be bred less and less after bigger predetors what threatnd flocks became exstinct over here..i bet they lost most of there funtion after this,but they never went extinct, they were now bred after this to fucntion as a Drovers dog..and they would of been good at it they had the old garding instict to protect the travelling flocks and owners on the road.they could live of scaveging and hunting.they could handle cold weather.and they could heard not just sheep, but every other animal driven to market, from geese to turkeys to even cattle...once trains were made Droving just died out,and then the real old Breardie seemed to slip into extinction to...with a few specimans still bred up to the 1980s in Scotland..
    maybe it never went extinct completely?maybe it was just bred into border collies and carryed on like that?
    One things certian tho..and that is;if the old Smithfeild Collie drove the heards from Nolfok to the smithfeild market in London...then the Bearded Collie drove the heards from and all over perhaps as far..theres some evidence to suggest that these types drove heards and flocks from the higher ends of Scotland to the southern ends of Scotland.
    witch is incredible.
    Nolfok to London was around a hundred miles of hard going..thats some going for man.heard.and dog.
    but the top of Scotland to the bottom???.. is way way way more then a hundred miles
    absolutely incredible distansce for man.heard.and dog.

    So i think the Border Collie is the best...but it would be a great shame if these old beardies went extinct.
    maybe they could still have a use in other countrys i dont no?
    thats why i asked Palooka to keep us posted...

    have you seen any beardie based lurchers Lrs?.ive never seen any.but they sound intresting.
    david63 likes this.
  17. Lrs

    Lrs Big Dog

    Seems couple mate slow starters and lack luster runners never seen one match a decent standard collie cross.
    david63 and Soze the killer like this.
  18. Ive read some of em start slow..
    i think old Deerhounds had beardie or some sort of Collie in them..i seen a pic of one and it looked like a Deerhound..
    i cant help think that....

    So what strain of Collie would you use Lrs?.one from the south or north of England?
    one from Wales or from along the Borders?

    I like the ones found in the Snowdownia area,they seem big and leggy..with some having smoothish coats.very keen then the ones in the North East of Wales.we uses to have one from the North East.,they look nothing look like mutts.but they make up for there apeatence in many other ways man.this one we had would round kids up lol.gently like,but round them up lol.this one would just sit out side in the rain lol.would be pissen down and shed just be sitting there actully liking it...18 years,or it might of been 20 lol She lived.
    miss her man,she was a beauty.about 35lbs she weighed.ugly little sweet natured tri colourd one.
    haha i use to take her and a Bulldog out on a long walk and half way through the walk ide stop at a house and give the dogs a drink.the bulldog would drink like fuck but the Collie would not drink untill she got home as she was suspisios to drink from anyone elses house i could let her go a good long way a head of me,,she always come back.i never walked her on a lead once.never..she was so inteligent shed of made you belive in Lassie lol.and belive me,if Lassie did exsist,it was most defintly not the show type in the film lol..
    if i could see that bitch..i would only have to look at her,ide never talk to her,ide only shout her if she was far away..she was like a fucking mind reader.she was in the family before i came along and i just took to her straight away..she was bought of a farm many years ago.super super smart..i never hunted or nothing with her.but was some what addicted to how obident she was.and ide spend hours walking around with her and my bulldog.who was leashed,but the Collie never..and if we would see a loose dog the Collie new it would get hurt and bay at it to keep it back from my Bulldog lol.she saved many dogs and was useful on a walk for that alone.

    As mutt looking these ones look ide keep some from that strain any day..i just like the Snowden ones because they seem bigger and they look well made...they look like they would be exerlant to make lurchers with..were as the one i had,and the strain its from are small,weird looking things..i used to think my one would be good to cross to a whippet.
    were as i think (or imagine)the Snowden ones to be good to cross to a greyhound.

    I suppose im talking nonsence they/both types would be useful to make lurchers from.

    Perrty limeted on my knowlege on them to be honest.seen more from the Welsh Borders more then anywere elese.
    no little about the ones from Snowden or other parts of Wales,and i no nothing about the Scottish Border ones.
    And even less about the Beardie...

    So any info would be aprecieted to be honest.
  19. Lrs

    Lrs Big Dog

    Well simply put mate the traditional way of getting a good sheepdog lurched was find a farmer who still uses his dog and promptly lose your bitch near his land and nature takes care of the rest lol. Never been to bothered what kind of border as with all crosses you want more running dog than anything else otherwise you’ll never get close enough to anything.
    david63 and Soze the killer like this.
  20. ^^^^^^^^^^
    pure old school lol.

    Just make sure its the farmers male who serves your way of getting that sort of cross lol.

    My look ide loose my gyp and shed get served by a goat or something lol.

    Get a pup.they cheap enough collie pups.then you need a greyhound though.dont no how to get one of those?.but i supposed there enough failed race dogs round.and most failed race dogs are just failed coz they board at chaseing the fake em the real thing and they love it.i mean i dont care if it cant race lol.i care if it can catch real animals lol.

    You know mate..just egnore i aint got a fucking about how to breed lurchers lol.

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