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The Colby Line

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by Dr. Lector, Feb 28, 2012.

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  1. BKNLS

    BKNLS Big Dog

    I can't believe this thread is 11 pages long, but that goes to show you how relevant the Colby line is. I don't care what anybody says, Colby blood is just like any other, there are good and bad in every line you just have to find the good ones. Be honest and the dogs will be honest to you. Best bitch I ever had was a pure Colby bitch bred by Louis, and she turned out to be everything you could ask for in a bulldog and some. Don't let these guys steer you wrong. Colby blood lives on and is still very much relevant to the breed. I will always incorporate this blood into my program, and will not hesitate to purchase another dog from the Colby family in the future. Yis
     
  2. sadieblues

    sadieblues CH Dog

    lol I could have saved 12 pages in one sentence it all comes down to who bred the dogs and why that applies to any family or strain of dogs it always goes back to the person breeding the dogs and individual dogs themselves. Not rocket science just fact.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2012
  3. Foundation

    Foundation Big Dog

    Im talkin purity and your talkin only 4 gen matter and then saying my kind of thinking waters stuff down? LOL I AGREE 100% WORKING TRAITS are easy to lose and once gone.. their gone... Its still evident that redboy his name in a pedigree represents a near pure colby dog and thus DNA.. Thats how genetics and DNA work.. And as long as you keep throwing that blonde hair out its showing that the blood or dna is tainted and inpure. Do you know how long it takes to breed that out completely? No less than 10 gen and that doin it right. COLBY makes fantastic outs for any strain of bulldog because its a REAL strain and there are not many only the great breeders have left legacys of REAL strains. COLBY, HEINZL, and LIGHTENER of course .. what ever they are crossed with they impact greatly as well all other strains we have today are inbred and linebred down from these.. Just like taking a thoroughbred back to an arabian (from which it came) GONNA GET old HOT horses eeWWEee.. Intelligent and stubborn but dang if they can't out work anything around em. You can count on an outcross like that because its the source and has remained pure. I think we both agree but you seem to think that nothing behind 4 gen affects a dogs make up and that just misguided.
     
  4. sadieblues

    sadieblues CH Dog

    I think what Dream is saying is the first 2 generations are going to have the biggest influence on the traits that are being preserved and passed along to the offspring. Most serious working dog breeders focus closely on the individual dogs themselves rather than 10 generations of dogs back in a pedigree. As the parents genetics will have the greatest influence on the offspring. You know exactly what you have and what you are trying to preserve. As far as gameness is concerned it's not something that randomly shows up it needs to be constantly checked for and selected for. If you are breeding a line of dogs and not selecting for those traits through the parents you are at risk of loosing those traits each generation that passes. Check your shit re check your shit and breed first class bulldogs and you won't have to worry about anything else the dogs always speak for themselves as individuals and this is where your strongest traits are coming from and where your primary focus should be on the Parents. Knowing what's on paper for 20+ generations means nothing if you are breeding shitty ass dogs to begin with. Everything else is just the opinions of other people and opinions are like assholes we all have one.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2012
  5. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    Exactly sadie, I don't care about how pure they are whatever that means. Working breeds are judged by performance, NOT looks and tight pedigrees. Watered down doesn't mean unpure, it means it can't compete like it once could bc people don't breed the right dogs or for the right reasons
     
  6. Foundation

    Foundation Big Dog

    Exactly ^^^ and I see nothing but ego and that is in the place of so said work... Im well aware of breeding for working purposes in my yard its survival of the fittest, if the dog can't handle a pack of coyotes, a moose, or a bear on its own well then it won't work. I dont condone breeding for looks however its funny you mention tight pedigreed because any dog your gonna promote to me or anyone is going to be a tight ped off of one dog or a few dogs linebred into false strains(lower strains) not real strains(foundation strains)...

    Im laughing because I agree with Sadie; who knows I know what Im talking about, maybe you got offended by how something I said made you feel however watered down means unpure in my standards because that means they wont work and well these dogs must be able to whip every dog at everything it was bred for and then whip em when its done; your not gonna get that breeding for looks.

    However your mistaking on your stance of purity of strain and its value to the rest of the dogs, horse, cattle, etc.... As long as people like Colby and Heinzl and Lightner know what they are doing they can get rid of undesriable traits.. Unlike the masses of stacked pedigrees of lower strains built from dogs who sole make up was founded by colby. Like I said and science states and proof is in the pudding; you cannot ignore any traits within 7 gen as if they wont pop up or wont matter without fooling yourself.

    Like I SAID. You may choose to follow certain dog men and their breeding practices or what they would advise.. I'll follow the 3 greats
    ; thats Opinions they vary.. However you can't argue with science and genetics without presenting your "own truth" and well that will be your lil secret.
     
  7. Foundation

    Foundation Big Dog

    a dog is 50% of each parent unless its stacked with one parent then it could be 75% or 100% that parent dog... with in each of those you have 256 ancestors that will affect how that dog is bred regardless of the working quality of the dogs in the first 3 gen; thus the saying they don't always breed true, spawned by someone who bred just like that for a time. The sole purpose of pedigree is to keep up purity and ch and know where defaults lie. If you are breeding to perfect an animal and only considering the first 3 generations, LOL, then you've already worked yourself in a corner, because you do not understand how genetics work. Because grands, great grands, great great grands, and even great great great grands have genetics that predate offspring obviously and will add attributes to that offspring whether you can see em or not, whether you believe they are important or not.

    To each his/her own.. but don't get all ego and say this is what matters when its a slippery slope.. LOL one dog, horse, cow .. or people .. is a direct genetic make up of 7 gen 256 ancestors .. Each ancestor has DNA coding that affects that offspring. Thats science, that genetics...
     
  8. Foundation

    Foundation Big Dog

    We've already said the same thing and in those posts your still going on about ... I always see the big picture, not just the hand in front of my face..
     
  9. keystone

    keystone CH Dog

    evry ped has a gene leader
     
  10. ragedog10

    ragedog10 Top Dog

    I m not a Colby hater by no means at all but if a person is breeding based on the dogs 8gens back then the likelihood of producing good performance dogs are slim. Yes a line of dogs should throw certain traits on a consitant basis now what those traits are depend on the line "ie Redboy =gameness "but once a person starts breeding his dogs for Redboy himself without concern for what the parents have done it won't take long for what the line is known to dissappear and just be pure Redboy dogs. Its common knowledge if you take a pure inbred line and do a outcross the results can be amazing. Now are Colby dogs as good as they once where I don't so I m not gonna knock them I do know I haven't seen or heard about one in quite some time doesn't mean they don't exist I'm sure they do. The problem is a lot of folks just breed their Colby dogs for the sake of breeding Colby dogs with no purpose at all. Now what I said can be said for most lines so in the end it all comes down to what an individual wants out of his dogs performance looks pretty peds...I look at it this way some people need a pretty ped to tell them they have a bulldog and that's all that matters to them. This wasn't directed at anyone just my two cents. Yis Ole Man
     
  11. BullDawg

    BullDawg Big Dog

    well, to quote Lou himeself, "Just because a name is attached to a dog, that doesn't make it a great dog".....

    just some food for thought.

    the Colby line is still producing some very good dogs. how consistently though, is any one's guess.
    and before the shit talking restarts, yes I have Colby dogs on my yard.
     
  12. Foundation

    Foundation Big Dog

    If you say Redboy was pure colby or near it .. this kind of rhetoric always pops up because people refuse to believe that redboy had colby or was 3/4 heavily inbred linbred colby down by loposay making a very strong colby marker.

    Colby is still pure and kept around for a reason and although not many, has dogmen behind it, I imagine thats for a reason of authenticity and ability to continue to throw better than avg dogs.
     
  13. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    I'm not offended at all, I just think its comical that you consider a "working breed" water down based on its pedigree rather than its ability. I have no idea what you are going about when you say false or lower strains. If my dogs are line bred of current ch/rom dogs and the dogs I bred are also ch dogs then whose dogs are lower strains? What makes one strain better than another is the same thing that makes one dog better than another and it has nothing to do with pureness lol
     
  14. rroscoe

    rroscoe Lightner Hemphill / Colby

    We owe respect to Colby for the great start to these dogs, we owe it to the dogs to try every day to improve something in 'OUR' breed no matter what the name or title ..I have only believed in trying to improve a dog It' wind, it's bite,it's power never cared about the name only about the Game
     
  15. Foundation

    Foundation Big Dog

    Tell that to Colby and Heinzl ... even better Lightener.. then boudreaux and patrick who built entire sub strains from the real strain these gentlemen created. You still cant see past your own hand in front of you. If the insert from DOGWORLD I put on page 9 or 10 doesnt explain it then maybe the lil insert Howard Heinzl Revisited may make sense as he tells how once again Colby, Heinzl, and Lightener all got dogs from the same litter.
    I brought up human comparison because you will always have the AFRICAN X marker in your DNA its the very first one. A TRUE DNA test they can show you exactly what generation the Native AMerican popped up. I figured self association, being human, you might see how dna works. I've seen similar DNA tests on wolves years ago to test them for pollution of stock by domestic dogs, they were worried about an incident that eventually years later came to be as a couple of wolves with domestic dog dna attacked and killed a young man, the first genuine wolf attack recorded in N. America. So again don't think that a marker 6gen or earlier cannot throw a variable unexpected from an ancestor of that dog.

    Your taking this conversation out context again as this thread is the Colby line which is a family of dogs as well as foundation strain to most all APBTs and if you look back 20,000 ancestors you'll see they kept colby outcrosses or dogs that were built upon colby, they used Lightener and Heinzl for reasons already stated and cleared. That is more than just looking for the next best dog, that is purity of strain that produces great dogs.

    There are two type of dogmen as far as breeders.. those who breed for the dog or those who breed for the bet. They kind of need each other because the latter knows just what is key to the next best dog and the earlier knows how to continue to produce those dogs.. I'd say J.P and Heinzl were a class above the rest. Heinzl only used dogs from particular sources and everyone even mayfield considered him the top breeder of the era if not all time. In GH recall of Heinzl, Heinzl didn't like dogmen, basically because they couldn't see passed their own hand infront of their face. Colby and Heinzl kept it pure .. yes they chose the best dogs of the bunch it still doesnt change that they limited their outsources to each other and those that bred dogs down from them good and tight.

    I dont see anything new.. one or two really stand out but if it can be done, it has been done.
     
  16. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    Foundation, the question is when is a strain a strain?
    See the colby dogs originated from the irish aswell as english dogs that have also been linebred!
    Concerning Redboy or any other strain existing, what´s the exact point you can label a strain as a strain?
     
  17. Foundation

    Foundation Big Dog

    IF you look at their work .. 10 gen .. with no other markers other than bred from that tight family and then given strain, what most call strains are sub strains or lines. WHich is my point all these are sub strains of what they handed down and inbred together real good. Some dog men almost get it and then wash it all out with the wrong out cross. The colby line is what it is because they used their own outs since .. since.. I pointed that out that the early dogs off the boat both colby and lightener got and later made crosses cause they needed diversity but didn't want to taint the purity of those down from those irish and english dogs like paddy. .. Colby is old family in it's own right and still going strong. Good enough for heinzl good enough for me. I just pay attention to how they built a family of dogs that were more consistent than any other.

    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=225

    Take a look at rusty here... go down the 3rd gen click the dog and after inspection click the back arrow and go down to the next dog. Take a peak at the outs without colbys name and see how they are pedigreed thus DNA map of what they carry.

    Patrick got close but who has that stuff always crosses out so family isn't as pure it gets close and then you see just before a full 7 even they outcross. Boudreaux is probably closest to being a family with no other genetic markers and Hammonds. There are some great lines or sub strains down from Buck, Jocko (my favorite dog ever), Jeep, and Turtlebuster etc.. when you look at what made em up Its Colby, Heinzl, or Lightener .. or a combination of the three or stock inbred down from dogs from any one of or the three.
     
  18. Foundation

    Foundation Big Dog

    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=56885

    A more current dog. ^^ ITs a family, its a strain, and a line.. its foundation in itself kept strong .. I would love to have seen Lightener follower stay as stead fast to be able to hand down in family such a legacy. IF you look at Heinzl and Colby and Lightener.. well if it can be said it has been said.

    My favorite dog ever was Jocko, my first love was a tant sired oklahoma bulldog of bozo/tonka, however my heart is with the legacy working colby dog, I love em nothing like em and they add to anything without tainting the blood. I've grown to love them more than OFRN dog and that is my first dream dog as I read the books of stratton oh so many years ago. To each his own.
     
  19. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    Screw me to tears. Good to read this today!
     
  20. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    And none of those peoples dogs are doing shit anymore without being crossed into "lesser strains" lol
     
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