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the sad truth

Discussion in 'SBT History' started by 12 gauge, Jan 21, 2012.

  1. I know a few Staff owners who've got it into their heads that purely because of what the breed used to be or where it came from, somehow their dog in 2012 will fight after all kinds of damage, or basically to the death. They've no reason to think this, other than the dog is a Staffie, and 'that's what they do, right?'
  2. nanney1

    nanney1 Pup

    It's no different than a person with a show bred sporting dog thinking their dog can hunt even though it's never seen a bird. While they realize their show bred pointer or setter would never win a field trial, they believe that their sporting breed would probably catch on and do a better job of finding birds than a Bullmastiff or Chow Chow, especially after some training.

    By the same regard, the show bred Staffy owner probably believes that if another dog, say a Vizsla or Siberian Husky decided to pick a fight with their Staffy, that their Staffy would most likely fight back and quite probably hurt the larger breeds. This is, in many cases, probably correct. But it would not constitute gameness any more than assuming that a sporting breed will hunt.

    But let's be clear here. Encouraging a sporting breed to find birds, not be gun shy, retrieve, etc.... is a means to an end which is a legal activity.

    Encouraging, selecting, and breeding for gameness is a means to an end which is an illegal activity.

    Breeding to to the standard and for high energy, stamina, strength, tenaciousness, etc... to participate in shows, agility, obedience, flyball, etc... shouldn't be discarded as a non-worthy endeavor.
    Clay2017 likes this.
  3. 12 gauge

    12 gauge CH Dog

    the idea of a standard was/is the ruination of this breed, get through your head a 38-45lbs 16inch stafford cannot function right in any serious endeavor
    a "standard" is someone's idea of how a dog should look like; an idea that shouldn't matter whatever you use your stafford for "beauty is as beauty does"
    instead of a "standard" we should be more focused on physical and mental balance
  4. nanney1

    nanney1 Pup

    The standard says 16" and 38 lbs as the top end for a male dog. However, there are plenty of show males in the 40-45lb range competing and winning. I'm not arguing that it is correct, only that it does happen.

    As for the standard being an idea of beauty, well... not completely. It is a description of what the functional dog should look like. If you focus solely on performance, and the best bird dog, pit dog, retriever, lure courser, etc.... looks exactly like a St. Bernard, then the standard would look like a Saint for all of those different breeds. But of course, it doesn't.
  5. The " standard" leads to dogs that are out of balance ie they are too heavy and they have an "exaggerated" look about them. MOST OF THESE DOGS ARE UNHEALTHY.
  6. This is true, but that's not what I meant, and the people I hear saying this are not people with decent Staffs who work in any way shape or form, rather the bowlegged round headed dogs that are literally everywhere ten a penny with teenagers around here. A dog's instinct may still be there, even if rarely, but the physical side of it won't let the dog what it's instincts might be going for.

    You're right about the Bullmastiff thing though, never thought of it like that, but it's not really relevant to what I'm saying.
  7. nanney1

    nanney1 Pup

    I have never, ever, seen a teenager walking around with a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I'm afraid that some in this thread are somehow confusing a Staffy with an American Bully, Pocket Bully, or some other form of Pit or Amstaff.

    Heck, aside from my breeder's home, I've never seen another Staffy in person except at a show. If I lived in Great Britain, I'm sure it would be different. However, some people who own show Staffies also compete in rally, obedience, agility, flyball, and weightpull.

    Even the heavier built show Staffies, are in no way bowlegged with their feet turning out. And a 16" 40+lb male can run circles around most other breeds. My 15" 31lb show girl can fetch a tennis ball at full speed for 20-30 minutes with short rest breaks. My 105lb American Bulldog gets tired just watching her.

    There's a family in my neighborhood with large blue Pits. They recently had a litter and regularly walk their dogs. And yes, withing 5 minutes of where I live, I can find teenagers walking a Pit or American Bully. But, never a Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
  8. jacko

    jacko CH Dog

    at ther last count there are over 30 staffords on my street alone of varying quality. i would say that most of these dogs are owned by people in their 20s and early 30s but a few are owned by older teenagers. ps none of these dogs are owned / walked by people who need a dog for the image. and most of them admitthat they got staffords b/c they fell in love with dogs i have owned in the past.
  9. nanney1

    nanney1 Pup

    Jacko, do you live in Great Britain, the US, South Africa, Austrlia? Give me a general idea?
  10. jacko

    jacko CH Dog

    i live in England :)
  11. nanney1

    nanney1 Pup

    Ah... I see. And there's the difference as I'm in the US. A Staffordshire Bull Terrier is something that most have never seen here. But there are classified advertisements almost every week in my local small town newspaper for various types of Pitbulls. Pits, XL Pits, and "bully type" Pits, are very popular though.

    The guy in my neighborhood with the Pits has a white and blue female that limps. She is probably 60lbs. His male is a solid blue Bully type and probably 80+lbs.
  12. Jdll13

    Jdll13 Big Dog

    I don't understand what your trying to say. You say you never see staffordshire bull terrier in USA and that is true I live here and I have never seen anybody walking one or even heard people talking about them. It is true, you see a million blue pitbulls, ambulls, and mixes. However I don't understand what your posts are about. Your talking about show staffies, which most people on this side of the board don't care for, and then talking about a performance dog looking like a St. Bernard? What the hell are you tying to say?
  13. Jdll13

    Jdll13 Big Dog

    My last post was for Nanney
  14. gypsyboy

    gypsyboy Big Dog

    All I can say is from my experiance. There's a gypsy family that has kept a single family of working staffys over 70 years with strict culling only dogs that can work are bred from. But then again most don't count a badger as a real test peace
  15. Dusty Road

    Dusty Road CH Dog

    And where they ? has anyone ever heard of them ?
  16. nanney1

    nanney1 Pup

    I'm saying that even a show bred Staffy, with generations of gameness bred out of them, would still be more likely to scrap with another dog if given the chance. Just like a show bred Pointer from generations of non-hunting stock would be better at finding birds than other breeds not originally selected for such activity.
  17. Ricky B, if you don't mind me asking. What dog is that in your avatar?
  18. Dusty Road

    Dusty Road CH Dog

    Tam, he was my first dog, a Stafford called BUTCH.... photo from mid 70s... got him from Cyril Griffin... I was given a hand written pedigree that I misplaced , and not 100 % what his breeding was, but do know Abourhill girl and Griffin's NELL ware up close in his pedigree.... he sired one or two proven dogs
  19. jacko

    jacko CH Dog

    have you got any more pics of him ricky ?
  20. Dusty Road

    Dusty Road CH Dog

    I have but .. the quality is poor, I will dig the out and put up... he was a strange coloured dog... he was black with brindle where the tan is on a Doberman... I think his dam was brindle like most of Cyril's Staffords

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