Untrue Peds

Ain’t it a shame that there are so many untrue pedigrees (or rumors about them) in the Game Dog sport? The importance of truth, also gene rally, is taken extremely lightly!! There can’t be good reason to be found why ‘fanciers’ fake pedigrees, because the breed we all love so much suffers from all this hogwash! Why is the breed suffering? Because the growth of the number of good quality game dogs is progressing much slower than when truth would have been a top priority! If you want your dog’s pedigree to remain secret, why don’t you just say so, that it is a secret? (To give this subject a different view, a performer who breeds his own dogs could share his breeding program because nobody could copy it, somebody may get dogs bred down from the same ancestors, but still they would be different individuals, and individual dogs is what we’re dealing with, right?)

Rushin’ Bill set an example by recording his “35” dog as ‘breeding unknown’, but, let’s imagine that Rushin’ Bill did record him with a very nice looking but fake pedigree (like a lot of fanciers are doing). Then “35” would have been bred much more than he is currently, and then “35’s” pups would have been walking lies! Let’s accept the thought of “35’s” sire being an incredible cur, and all “35” was throwing were puppies who look plus act just like his sire, then you would not understand ‘why’ they quit because they were ‘so well bred!’ (And all this because a ‘dogman’ didn’t tell you the truth.)

In this way beginners may quit the sport because it seems that the No.1 thing in our sport is ‘luck’, which is a factor, but it shouldn’t be as big as it is today!! The Game Dog sportneedsto get more ‘positive’, and, as a result, it will attract more ‘positive’ fanciers, which would be a good thing for the breed. Concerning the subject of paper hunting; never use any dog for any breeding if he or she did not prove to be a decent game dog. This is true no matter how he or she is bred!

In closing, I’d like to say that trying to make a ‘positive’ difference was my motivation for writing this article. Let’s clean up the sport…….

 

i understand what your saying..but at the same time a true ped,and a real registery does not garentee performance..

 

Lets clean up the sport?...I expect you have a grand 22 point plan on how to do this. If you look a little past your yard you can see what situation the breed is in now.

In my opinion you will never erradicate problems like fake peds. (which is a situation in a few other breeds) Simply because there is the money factor within the breed. People looking to make a quick buck. not by selling pups on the roadside for $50 but by faking a ped and earning upwards $700 a pup.

You see the sport will be held true by those who love the sport the breed and everything in between. A person cannot keep conning people for ever. Sooner or later they will be weeded out and the true people remain. Dishonest people quickly burn out.

We cannot do anything about things like Fake Peds. All we can do is caution the people that we have had direct dealings with. You wont convince people to stop faking peds if there making money or gaining glory from it. Its simply greed which is one of the strongest of human natures.

If a beginner isnt willing to stick it out and put out hard work and quits just after a few months of bad results I say good ridance we dont want people that are not dedicated. I personally know Ill be invloved in the breed until the day I die. Weather it be deep in the woods in a nice shack or in the suburbs. It doesnt matter. I am dedicated enough to devote my time and stick it out.


What do you mean the sport needs to get more positive?

Theres shady dealings in every aspect of life. I dont quite get what you mean by it needs to get positive. Plus I dont know how exactly you plan to do this.

To be honest right now I dont really want to attract more and more people to the breed.


"Concerning the subject of paper hunting; never use any dog for any breeding if he or she did not prove to be a decent game dog."

Ah Shit we have sherlock in the buliding.

 

i do agree with what your saying. PPL nowdays breed dogs to breed them with no standard, proven or not and you have all these paper hangers also, i guess it just boils down to who you know and trust to a certain extint, because nowdays alot of ppl will talk to save they're own @SS If it comes down to it,, I don't think you'll ever get rid of the wanna be's, it is what it is,, i guess

 

By the way, the article came from the TIMES.

 

These dogs have a great past, a past full of emotions, a past full of great people and dogman who placed everything on the line so that we can enjoy what the APBT is today. These dogmen kept the substance of the breed intact, they preserved the traits that these great animals are known for. These animals have a great legacy and these dogmen left us that legacy to cherish and to continue with the same path.

The article was not meant to invite people to fight dogs or to condone it. This article is just a person's point of view in the matter of breeding and pedigrees. This article is very much true in respect to hanging papers on a dog, it is something that has been going on for years and years. These same great dogmen, who created a path for us to follow and these same great dogmen who maintained the substance of this breed, are also the ones who used this method of deception to hide the true lineage of some of our dogs. I don't think there was any malice in their part, but it was a way for them to keep secret what it worked for them. As the saying goes " I'll sell you the soup, but not the recipe "

You obviously took this whole article out of context and worse, you created your own little conclusions to therefore attack on people who you believe are worse than the devil itself, for engaging in conduct you disapprove.

I ask the members of this board if my historic material offends you and you would prefer that I not continue to post them here, to let me know, civilly and like adults, to stop sharing these documents with you. I will certainly go away with no hard feeling.

Gato

Edited to stay on topic-DryCreek

 

As for the article, it has a point. You may use your dogs for a great many things, show, rescue, agility, weight pull, and all of those things are fine. The pit bull excells at many things and make great companions...but if you want to breed true to form, if you want to be a breeder, there is really only one standard, otherwise you end up seven gens down the road with something that is just a shell of a pit bull. (Thats why there are am-staffs) Which is why there will be no "real" pit bulls in this country one day. You can love pit bulls and hate the game, thats fine. You can do with your dogs what you wish. I love my dogs for all the qualities you mentioned too. I just have the forthought to realize where those qualities come from.

Edited to stay on topic-DryCreek

 

I've cleaned up all the unrelated crap that started so we can keep this thread about the original article posted.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic

DryCreek

 

Thank you Gato, I enjoyed this artical. That guy coped an attitude and called you"Shirlock" and then found out the artical came from the Times. That is great!! that is toooo Ritch!! Lol Lol

 

The sport cleans up itself. Yeah, sh$t floats, so when a newbie jumps in, and stays on the surface, they are swamped in in, and become part of it. The hucksters can't survive in the deep water. The sport is to small, yet reaches out all over. People from Spain , Brazil, Texas, Cali., N.C., Boston.. etc. Bad reps spread. The slick huckster is only good for two or three litters tops, before they lose actual and potential customers. Chances are they have very, very few "dogmen / women" , as customers anyway.
They make the mistake of not looking into future. They could concievably end up with great dogs in the future , but will have to overcome thier negative legacy that they created.

Now I know someone who got a dog from T.G., off of some Frisco stuff. He was expecting ADBA papers. (He didn't get them) When he found out about the ADBA situation he questioned the pedigree. The dog lost value to him. I told him whether the the ped was true or not didn't matter because whatever it was, it had to be good enough for TG to pass it off as FRISCO stock. The dog was crossbred and produced great dogs. The guy still didn't respect it. Now his new thing is "DNA", profiled, certified %'s etc. He hasn't produced anything of that quality since. (To my knowledge, I could be wrong)
You just gotta know the breeder, or his reputation.

 

I personally love the articles you post. Please keep them coming.


I got this for you Gato.
vBulletin Message <!-- main error message -->

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Gato again.

​

That is true. My neighbor has a dog that looks just like a chow. He claims it is a fullbred St. Bernard, and that he has the papers to prove it. I somehow believe that man has been had.

 

I recently was surfing around message boards and came across one of my pedigrees for an inbred pup someone in La was selling. The thing is, yes, I made the breeding but all the pups died. Sometimes the paper hangers get caught, sometimes they don't.

The thing to remember is that even some of the big name pit bull fanciers of long ago were some of the most unsavory characters. The stories about them that you read in the old articles may make them out to be saints....but truth is when you talk to the people who actually knew them, many were Liars, Cheats and Thieves.

One in particular, would get another drunk, set him up with a prostitute and go breed one of his females to the other's male. Then claim the offspring was off one of his males.

So there have always been dishonest people in the dogs, and probably always will be

 

where can i find this guy? lol
wtf?

 

I agree. Ive met some of the realest people in the world in the last few years and Ive met some of the shadiest. Actually THE shadiest cat I ever met was through TripleJ and this SOB was just that. An SOB. Good post BanjoDogz.

 

Your are most welcome. Some of these articles I post, come from a friend who manages another APBT board and I asked him for permission to cross post here.

What do you mean by "I got this for you" ?? Also "You must spread some reputation..................................................."?? You lost me brother LOL.

Gato

 

You cant do anything against fake pedigrees.

Therefore, trust is so important and, therefore, real papers are so valuable. The blood is really cleaned only by the Pit. The fight is an incorruptible judge and has our dogs for centuries, probably about millenniums receive. Even if CH 35 father was a poodle, it would change nothing. The fight will check all generations after CH 35, and as long as the fight does not lose his job Bulldogs will always remain Bulldogs.
.

 

Well, here's how I see it.

Now days, seems like everyone I meet is interested more in the paper than the dog. I can understand the paper, it is a good starting point, but most entirely neglect the dog, which is of more importance to me.
This being the case, people hang papers to sell dogs, knowing that 99% of the folks who get them cant tell a bulldog from a hole in their rear ends.
Now, it was the same thing along time ago. I am thinking of one such man in particular, but am sure that it happened allot. This fella was a well known and respected breeder and dog man. If you came to him to get a dog off of one of his ch or grch, and he knew that you were gona have that dog in your living room and not campaign the dog, he'd sell you a nice dog that would be good for a pet, with papers from one of his game dogs. The pet owner would be able to brag about having a dog bred for the war, yet in reality, he got a nice pet dog. The very same breeder, if you were gona campaign the dog, would sell you what was on paper.
People today are like the pet owner purchasing the dog. They want bragging rights to how the dog was bred, but want to let the dog live the Richie Rich lifestyle.
Do I agree with hanging papers? No. When someone comes to get something from me, I always ask what they are wanting from the dog. Then I steer them in the right direction. Do I want to kill those who do like the breeder I mentioned above. No, because I understand his thinking, I just dont apply it in my life.
Now, I said all of this, and left his and others names out of this post for one reason, the very dogs you have and brag about may very well have come from one of the hung papered dogs, and I didnt want to hurt your feelings! You say, "man, I know the ped is right on my dog, cause how it is." Which leads me to the next point, breeding for paper may make you end up in the loser's box, and breeding for the dog may make you end up on top.

Moral of the story. People who have dogs with perfect pedigrees will breed them and sell them, even when the dog is worthless, and a danger. And then they will put someone down for having a scatterbred dog.

There is no telling how much money I have spent to get a hopefull dog, only to find it fit for alligator food.
Had a fella come out yestereday to look at some dogs. He seen a few of my females that are 2-3 years old, and when I told him they had never been bred it amazed him. I had to teach him that a dog was not worthy to be bred till it showed itself to be worthy.(Now if they were worthless I wouldnt be feeding them. ). Everyone of them are showing nice signs, but just havent given me the green light, yet.