Working Dogs VS Show Dogs

I very much agree! At the nationals we had senior judge say, while that is a good bulldog for the [] this is a conformation show and we need to place accordingly. That really bugged me because that will be the down fall of the ADBA and it will begin to look like the UKC. I saw a few kennels that bred ADBA show dogs and were some of the best in the country but the dogs lacked the temperament and characteristics of a high drive APBT. If your breeding for show and the drive and function of the dogs go away, isn't that an Am staff?:rolleyes:

 

a lot not all but a lot of show judges wouldnt know a bulldog if it was biteing there ass.... if you make a breeding with the plans of winning at dog shows with the pups then you are breeding show dogs ... is there anyone on this forum that will fess up to breeding show dogs ?

 

You can def see in the ring the show dogs and the true bulldogs...

 

...and...that is why I breed for workability....

 

I certainly will and I do not need to "fess up" as there is nothing wrong with perserving and promoting this wonderful breed. Also, from your statement i will take it you have been to alot of show... I will safely assume these were ADBA or AADR shows. If so, you certainly know that most all of the top dogs were breed with the show ring in mind.... sure... some come off of yards where working is the main function but not as many as you'd think....


From reading thru this thread again... I honestly do not believe too many folks who actually commented have ever been to a ADBA show (or you wouldn't say what ya did) and if you have - it has to have only been to one or two... Also, I always doubt how much folks on this board actually "work" there dogs.... JMO

I invite anyone to take your dog through the rigors that mine go thru getting ready for shows... we're pulling chains later today and did road work with the bicycle yesterday.... THEY WORK THERESES OFF and so do I....

Considering I have no doubt that if my dogs (or pups) were trained to hog hunt or do bite work that most would have the ability and the percentages would be very similar to a yard that was strictly breed to hog hunt tho slightly lower.

There are alot of hog hunting genes in each and every dog I own (except for one who is 1/2 UKC - York - dog and believe it or not she is the hottest). A few generations of proper culling and you could most likely have a nice yard of exceptional hog dogs.

If you are not actually breeding for hog hunting or bite work and you frown upon breeding for show but you actually do enter combat contest with these dogs I doubt you'd be on here talking about it. Maybe trying to learn and pretending you know about it./... as alot on here do.....

 

wondered what you're thoughts were on these as someone mentioned the EBT's of old.
http://www.thunderrockoldtymebullbreeds.co.uk/index.html?_ret_=return

 

Wrong!! Plenty of us attend ADBA shows, i've been to Topsfield, tri-state, morgantown, potts town and many others. I had a judge tell me my dog was to small at 39lbs. And another told my friend his dog was to excited, and if he could have her quiet down in the ring. Thats a load of BS, attitude is needed in this breed. And to my knowledge the size range to the standard is 30-55lbs, almost everything that Champs out these days at an ADBA show, is 48+lbs. I know a few that have small gamedogs that win, but they are few and far between now. AADR on the other hand, the judges they use like a real APBT, not a Staf/Pit mix.

 

Don't jump down my ass... I obviously was not talking to you.... Yes... you made a post in this thread but there were IN NO WAY commented on by me... You talked about some medical issues... which were not even remotely addressed by me..... back off....

Also, you seemed to bash the ADBA and give props to the AADR, that's cool but I never said I favored one or the other... not sure where that came from either....

I have seen all sizes win and place.... The top 5 male dogs this year are anywhere from 40 - 52lbs.... look it up...

 

Actually - I went back and double-checked... there is absolutely nothing in your reply that relates to anything that I posted? Yes, I did say "I do not believe too many folks who posted on this thread have ever been to a ADBA or AADR show/... etc..." - When I said too many that certainly left the door open for someone such as yourself who has been to a show.

 

I think that breeding with ONLY the show ring in mind will produce amstaffs. Because all you have to accomplish is good conformation. But, a bulldog has attitude, athleticism and intelligence on top of that.

I show and weight pull my dogs but I expect that any dog I breed can do anything put in front of them. Thats because I have never and will never breed specifically for "looks."

And, in case you wonder of my "experiences" with showing, my stud dog is 10 points from his CH title in the ADBA. One of his daughters has 40someodd points towards hers. . . so I guess I've been to a few shows.

 

OK - so.... if I take a bad ass working dog who may need more angulation in the rear hips and breed it to a bitch who has perfect hips and works her ass off... what's the difference as long as the blood compliments each other....?????
... champed 2 out this year... one I breed and the other before he was 9 months... took home 8 pieces of hardware between them... not bad for a couple house dogs....

 

If you breed for show but still have dogs who have the characteristics of the APBT then there is nothing wrong with that. Some of the breeders that are breeding for show, the dogs lack the drive and temperament. Those are the dogs I think are being referred to as am staffs.

I think it depends on the judge in the ADBA and just like any venue there are good ones and bad ones. I attend many shows (ADBA and AADR) with some dogs that are close to CH in the ADBA.

 

no one is talking about your dogs who can still function, there are breeders that breed only for show and they resemble Am staffs in drive and temperament.

 

That dog is a Sharpei a know genetic cluster fuck anyhow.

 

I'm not jumpin down anyones ass. Sorry if it came out that way!

 

Well... yes they were... when they make a blanket statement such as "if you breed for the ADBA show ring.... you are ruining the true nature of the breed, etc. etc."


The breeders that breed only for show are the AKC AM Staff show people, there's not alot of them in relation to the actual folks who are really messing up this breed... AKC AM STAFF show dogs overall are a very, very small percentage of actual breedings of "bully breeds" being done.... and it is their right to do whatever they want with their animals. Personally I do not like them.

No one can actually "test" their dogs legally and the percentage of folks who do it illegally is even smaller than AM Staff breeders....

Most people breed these dogs because they think there dog is pretty, mean, tough, big etc and the dog down the street is pretty, tough, mean etc... They are the folks who are messing it up....

 

My bad... I guess it's just an issue close to my heart and maybe I need to just back off ....

I love my dogs and i'm gonna go pull some chains and get ready to show down in Florida later this month... my one CH bitch wasn't where we wanted her last weekend and maybe i need to spend less time on this computer and more time with her....

Peace fellas (and ladies) - Have a great day and get outside with those dogs.....

 

How is it not wrong to breed for show when these dog are bred to be proformers?? :confused::mad:.. I don't give a sh*t if your showing your dogs in UKC or "VIC". When you start breeding for show your breeding AmStaffs. They may not be fucked up like Bulldogs or Pugs but they sure as shit aint APBT any more. JMO


Vic

 

I tell you this from the shows I have been I have seen great true Bulldogs that had conformation to great status because of the quality of the dogs' breeding and the reason behind the breeding which was to preserve the breed to preserve the breed its only one way and that is to breed for what is was created for.
I do see some dogs that you can clearly see they are just shells winning when they clearly should not. Champs I've seen which I was absolutely amazed that they were able to achieve champ status looking like a UKC amstaff almost..but hey it was a pretty dog... compared to the rough more jagged true bulldogs in the ring who showed personality, attitude, a true package of what a apbt truly is which is virtues first conformation second. But we all know judges need to be placing not the prettiest conformation alone..and APBT is a package deal can't be just a shell. Because mind you the "conformation" truly is a theory in what the APBT should be but without gameness that conformation aint worth anything.
Actually that is one of the first things you hear from some UKC people Oh you get a dog with great conformation it will perform great,, BS...You be seeing them dogs in a sports event the handler is working more then the dog...
APBT conformation is from inside out. Not Outside in.
And truly that concept should go for any breed you breed for virtues first and then conformation...

 

Very well put.

Vic