supplements for conditioning

believe me i understand what you are saying, the ephedra thing was ridiculous, 23 deaths in many years of usage all at very high doses. just trying to help make a point that creatine has been under scrutiny for a long time and the only side effects are those you listed.

 

No I havent I would never waste good steroids on my dogs (JUST JOKING). But the truth is Dogs DO NOT NEED CREATINE its too hard on the in sides I dont care how much water you give them. They get it with the raw meat And If you sumplement it it WILL shut them DOWN I know this for a fact a hard hunt they will piss blood if you are luckey and live but what if they dont Dogs take in things better than we do and More is not allways better. I would stay natural and see what the dogs are all this crap people pump in You Never know if its the dog or the chemicals. J

 

do you have any proof dogs "do not need creatine"?

http://www.k9power.com/creatine_dogs.php

http://www.k9power.com/performance_dog_supplements.php

"Currently, creatine monohydrate is among the most popular and widely used supplements in human athletes. Athletes use it to enhance recovery, power output, and muscle hypertrophy. Scientists recognize that it's equally valuable in dogs"

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=0&cat=1448&articleid=1346

now i respect everyones opinion, you are entitled to it, but 5 minutes worth of basic research will get anyone enough information to have a basic understanding of creatine use with dogs.

why would tg put it in RF-1? he is an educated man and has way more knowledge of dogs than most poeple i know. :rolleyes:

 

DOGS get all they need in Meat. There is no need to give extra. I have used it thats the proof I lost one due to kidney failure and truley belive that it was suplements (creatine that made him run hot and shut down) Thats proof for me. And people dont understand that too much Meat or creatine hurts a dogs kidneys bad. Dogs do not process things the same way we do. Good feed and water and rest is all you need thats a fact I dont care what any one says I have seen a lot of new guys get on that banwagon only to have there hart broke. J

 

I would think that the evidence is in the fact that dogs can do fine without it, they have in the past before creatine was available as a supplement. I think all he's saying is that the natural amount is enough. I'm sure it does have some benefits, but saying it's necessary is just not true. And I'm talking about as a supplement, not what comes naturally from meat.

 

Based on the keep you posted I would be willing to bet the dog was dehydrated and shut down due to lactic acid toxicity.
If you have to take food away 48hrs out, and water 24hrs out, the dog is obviously not showing at his optimum wt.

 

If it is contested that dogs get everything from meat, how is it possible that they cannot get vitamin E from meat?


i pause.

 

Ok look you take the dog food away. And the only dog I have ever come in dry was the one I gave the sumplements to. You take the water out of the feed 24 so the dog will loose the last pound of extra water. the dog will stay one over untill the last day. You take the dog food out 48 hrs so the dog will emty out and NOT run hot ,the dog still gets food and the proper amounts of it at that. I am by no meens new to bringing a dog in and have learned this from a dog man that has one of the best streaks I knew. (RIP) If you are willing to bet you would loose I would not even work a dog if his skin was not tight. and lactic acid will get in all dogs if pushed too hard. it is something that happens. But when a dog runs hot and cannot come threw it that is something else. It can happen with too many vit b and many others. All I am doing is tring to stop some kid from pumping to much crap in is charge and shuting it down. BUT hey fine feed it all that shit and when they burn there insides out I dont want to hear any thing. J

 

TripleJ- When did you stop giving creatine to the dog you're referring to?

I won't comment on a hunt while using supplements as that may change a lot of things around to due the nature of having to be precise. Balances can be thrown off while taking "this" away and adding "that". Just like adding too much water to the diet and not increasing sodium intake will flush your system of both salt and potassium, leading to being dehydrated even though your downing 2 gallons of water daily. Then the cramping sets in... Anyway, I'm speaking on the terms of having a dog in training or going into a weight pull where weight and precision isn't a primary concern. With the dog being fully hydrated with a healthy diet, added supplements can be beneficial. Now personally, creatine is a super cheap supplement that can be played around with IMO. Just remember that creatine doesn't really come into play with endurance. It's used mainly to fuel the muscle for short bursts. Sprints, 1 RMs, jumping....

 

I guess we disagree

We have used RF-1 and been very successful with it, and I would never consider not using it.

 

It is true creatine is found in many meats such as beef, herring and salmon. "However, the very best source of creatine by far is creatine monohydrate because it contains more creatine per weight of material than any other source". The ones with the CreaPure Logo are considered the more effective and pure. 5 grams per day is what most people use but for it to be properly assimulated by the body you must mix it with hot water for it to properly break down and be absorbed by the stomach. By just mixing in cold water most of it just goes down the toilet. I believe the same would apply to the dogs. For you guys that use creatine do you just give in the dogs water?

 

im not sure with dogs but with human atletes....you are suppose to drink lots of water with creatine-- at least a gallon a day. (it is als0 absorbed into the bodily system fater when taken with a high glycemic carbohydrate. something like a gatorade or fruit juice) even without the creatine though... taking away the water doesnt seem logical to me. it may help to get the dog to a certain weight but probably not at its optimal energy level.

 

not trying to publicly challenge anyone or thier ideas, but to add to this conversation here are my thoughts.....


did you thouroghly read the links i posted? you would have seen that meat we buy at a store has far less creatine in it naturally than wild game, due to it being commercially raised. your dog isnt getting any real additional amount into his system from store bought meat.

based on what you say here, it sounds like you supplemented the dog all the way into the hunt with creatine and that was the problem. it is meant as an aid during the keep. it should have been stopped a week or so out.

just curious what you mean by too much meat will harm the kidneys? domesticated dogs are nearly genetically identical to wolves that eat a diet primarily consisting of protein rich meat and bone. you are right we dont process things the same way, dogs dont really need carbohydrates as a primary source of energy like we do.


anyhow, do what you want brother. i am no one to tell you or anyone else what to do just offering a different point of view.

happy friday everyone.

 

reducing water intake 24hrs before a show is commonplace. i dont take it away altogther but reduce it significantly.

 

i can understand reducing the water amount but if i read correctly ...he was talking about taking away water for 24 hours and food for 48 hours. doesnt seem like the dog would be at its most optimal state that way.

 

" The average dogman is 20-30 years behind the learning curve."

Bob Fritz

 

As with anything and everything in this world, there is good and bad within.
Why does it have to be an argument? Why can different people not have different knowledge? Why is it such a big deal that everyone "not believe the same as the next"? I will never figure this board out. It is hopeless. I never knew that an opinion was wrong. I also never knew that FDA was always right and correct on info and meds/vits they allow. I also did not know that some people could never be wrong. I did not know that everything you reason on the net is true, because it is on the net. I also did not know that the only information that IS correct, is the part one believes to be! :rolleyes:

 

Very simple. Would the opinion of the earth being flat be wrong?

 

Simple. It was not an opinion, it was an uneducated assumption. It was an assumption that was made without having any insight or way to know any better. The bigger question is: "Did he "really" think that"?
Without proof, how could anyone know any better?

With some of you people, it is like trying to discuss common sense with a brick wall.

 

What was an uneducated assumption? That creatine is unhealthy, even though scientifically is has been proven to be beneficial for fueling the muscle with no known health problems or that the world is flat even though that's been proven wrong?