opinions please...

Well I wasnt going to post on this again, but it is still a free country so... Look at his description in his ped. HE IS IN FACT A SHOW DOG! He also came on here asking oppinions, mine is simple and maybe I should have had more tact in saying I would not do it, but I didn't. Look at it this way. If you have to ask if you should do a breeding then IN MY OWN OPPINION you shouldn't be doing a breeding.
There are pleanty of breeders out there who do know what they are doing and do their breedings for very good reasons. I am not saying I am a great breeder because Im not a breeder. I keep everything and breed very few. I know what I am going to get out of a breeding 75-100% of the time and I am verry rarely dissapointed. I don't have to ask because I know what I have and am verry picky on what I stud out to and who.
Too many people are throwing dogs together that have no business doing so, but they do. You are also correct in saying it dont afect me. Unless you look at it this way and he has poor judgement and gives these pups to friends of frieds, or even sells to strangers because some buyers flaked out. Then they end up with some dumb ass who can't house a dog and it gets out and bites a kid. BAM now you have a PIT BULL BAN up for vote in your city counsil. Then tell me whats good and bad for the breed.
You want me to post my dogs peds??? Why, you will never have a dog from me and I am not concerned about what I have. I unlike this guy know what I have and what I can expect out of any breeding. I dont have peds online either. Never had a need for it.

 

None of those titles she listed are show titles. At least not conformation show titles. I guess if you consider the different events -- weight pull, flyball, etc. -- as "shows" then yes, he'd be a show dog. But as far as show-bred, I just didn't get that from his pedigree, which is why I asked. My take just on what was provided is that if Jaeger was show-bred, there would be at least a few show CH in his pedigree. There aren't. There really aren't any accomplishments immediately behind him. As you go farther back, there's a lot of gamebred stuff. So I don't know if I'd call him gamebred, but I don't think I'd call him show-bred either.

Anyway, the main reason I asked that question was not to bait anybody into bashing Jaeger, because I don't consider show-bred to be a bash. I was just saying that I didn't see how this would be considered a show-n-go type breeding since I didn't really see the "show" in his pedigree. The point that she's taken him and put all kinds of training on him doesn't really affect what's behind him. Folks other than myself have said "take a gamebred dog, train him for obedience, and he'll work his heart out for you" or something to that effect. So hypothetically, you could take a gamebred dog, give him the right training, and you wouldn't get any less of a gamebred dog than you had. But that's another issue.

I don't disagree that most of the people breeding have no business doing so. But if she feels this dog has done things that prove him worthy of passing on his genes, and she's got responsible folk who want to take his offspring, I see no reason against it.

 

Ah, I see. So it's cool for me to get bashed for participating, but I can't respond, eh? If I'd have deleted Minor's post directly addressing me, I would've gotten some whiny BS about being a biased mod, and handling it only because I didn't like the way he spoke to me. So I responded publicly, and I still got a snark. Can't win for losing. I honestly don't give a fuck anymore though. I'm not going to put up with whiny little bitches dogging my every footstep.

 

spf, I respect youre opinion. We just se things differently on this subject. Imo,apbt does= gamenss. I would consider Jager a staff. tharefore anything off him would be staff bred. I just dont think that the show breeders, weightpullers, flyballers etc.... are the ones doing harm to the breed. IMO thay are doing the exact opposite by portraying the breed in a positive light and showing the breeds versatality. Now that ya point it out there are other things you could be called sutch as paperhanger,cheat,etc.. that are equialy as bad as the term byb. I wouldent want to be called any of the above and don't belive that the op deserves the "BYB" tittle. Do I Advise the the breeding of stafs.....Yes. As long as the person breeding them understands the difference and calls them what thay are. Staffs. Thay are not poluting the gene pool because thay are breeding with focus. Not breeding unhealty Mixed mutts. Also thay are doing the breeding with intentions of keeping pups and placeing the other pups with people who do the same activitys with there dogs. Proffisenal working and show homes, not taking out an add in the classifieds. Anyone who is breeding for gamedogs would take a look at jaggers ped and rule him out as a possable stud. Soooooooo..... the breeding wont affect any real doggers programs (would be no differnt than a lar-San or any other show type breeding) The ones that do make it out to Joe Blow Public should be sound mentaly and phisicly because thay were breed by someone who knows dog's and how to tittle them. Not By A BYB.

 

Good post, Big Game. You summarized a few of my thoughts on these kinds of breedings. I don't agree with every single point -- who does? -- but there are some good thoughts there, IMO.

 

I guess it all depends on who you talk to, since when I talked to Miller (who's dogs Jaeger is out of) he told me Jaeger is quite "game breed".
Most of the APBT people that I talk to at our local clubs, including a couple of ADBA judges that I have met, have expressed their surprise in the activities that Jaeger participates in due to his "game" lines. He is by no means a show breed dog. His breeder actually breeds and uses his dogs for hog hunting. No dogs in Jaeger's pedigree have even ever been UKC or AKC registered. Jaeger has Boomerang quite a bit in his pedigree (I believe 14 times within 7 generations), and the female pups dam comes from Boomerang. That is what caught my eye about her in the first place.
Just because I don't engage my dog in illegal activity, doesn't mean he's not game. Besides show dogs can't do half the shit my boy does.
My original post was a question about the female that I am getting. I never asked anyone's opinion about my boy, or whether I should breed them together. That is my decision to make. Some of us care more about what our dogs can accomplish, not a fancy pedigree on a dog that is wasting away in someones yard.
Thanks.

 

I have to disagree with this..In my opinion anytime a working dog is bred for anything other than performance you are poluting the gene pool by adding inferiour genes back into said program,and as I have said before flyball,and comformation(in my opinion) dont count when it comes to the quality of a BULLDOG..

 

Ultimate: What pedigree are you looking at? Boomerang is not is Jaeger's first 7 generations at all, let alone 14 times! lol At least not according to the link you posted.

As for you breeding Jaeger to a very nice, performance-bred bitch, you may not have asked our opinions but then why mention it at all? You had to know what most people here would think about it... JMO.

 

Im not sure how,but half of my original post is contained inside Big Game's quote..lol

 

Maybe you should think of it in this way.. you state you are seriously interested in getting said pup. WHY. what draws you to this pup? As stated by a few people, it doesn't look like any dogs in the first 3 generations competed in any of the events you are interested in. Not that the pup may POTENTIALY be able to do these.. but at this stage of the game thats all you have to go by. What could be. That in itself isn't the ground work for establishing a secure breedng program. You just never Know. this pup would be more of a gamble to you than anything else.. or not. And for bloodlines, again, if you have only read about a few dogs in the ped, what draws you to that pup? Have you seen her parents? Know anything about them? What have they accomplished..

If I was you, I would think about looking at kennels who are interested in the same goals you are with your dog and go from there. It seems like what you have already accomplished with your dog is far more worth the extra search and research..

 

To be honest I didnt see where you were "bashed",but I have absolutley no problem with people speaking their mind on any subject,whether it hurts someones feelings or not..If it was up to me talk of illegal activities,and brain dead posts would be the only posts to be deleted..Aurguing/debating definetley in my opinion has its place on all forums,because without people being able to speak their mind on any and all subjects (with the exception of illegal stuff) people tend to "walk on egg shells" and topics generally get boring quick..I didnt see any arguing/debating on your part,only foul language,and I certainly hope that whiny little bitch comment wasnt directed towards me..

 

BahaMutt, comeon now.... your staff/mixed-breed dog loving is not bringing anything positive to this board. Suposedly a moderator, yet you lack any of the knowledge regarding bulldogs. Yes you specialize in all kinds of "pet owners" activities, and you probably have lots of fun with your cross-breeds at the dog parks and walking your dogs off leash in Petco.....but 99% of the people come here to learn and discuss BULLDOGS.

MinorTheat & SPF - You two are critically needed as moderators on this site...... you sure have my vote and most others on here

If anyone feels the same way as I - Reply with:

"Minorthreat & SPF for Moderators 2008"

 

I have been told many times this board is for all APBT owners, Pet and Game. But that is your PO and everyone is entittled to one. I don't have Game dogs, but some game bred, they are still pets.

 

jman11, I warned you... if you say one more thing about my moderaters, I would ban you... I have the mods for a reason (to help clean up the site) so say good bye to the site, I will not allow the bashing of the mods!

 

Ha ha, I just realized I hit the 1. It was supposed to be 4, and I guess it is his 8th generation, then another 4 or so times in the 9th generation. He also had Clint Black several times. I never realized how much Wilder there is.

 

Jaeger's pedigree doesn't possess dogs with any titles other than ROM, POR, CH ROM, and GR CH ROM. He has never had a flyball dog, agility dog, obedience dog, dock diving dog, herding dog, therapy dog, or service dog in his lineage. That hasn't stopped him from competing and titling in almost every aspect of competition.
If I was ever to look for a pup with a dog, with Jaeger's accomplishments, in its pedigree; it would have to be a pup off of Jaeger. I haven't found another APBT with the diverse abilities, that even compare.
But I also spend normally 10 hours a day training and working with my dogs. They accompany me to work, and we are together at the training club 6 nights a week.
I think that my training and rules, have a lot to do with creating the dog I want.
I have worked extremely hard to keep my boys dog tolerant, so that they can compete in activities. But sure there have been times that I have had to literally carry Jaeger out of the ring, because another dog charged him, jumped at him, ran up his rear, went after a friend, etc. Sometimes I can't turn his drive down or off, but I have learned really well how to focus it.

BTW, I am not interested in starting a breeding program. I have only considered breeding (Jaeger). I really don't want to deal with the stupidity of people shopping for a "pitbull".

 

I like the way Millers Dick is bred. Jaeger is bred down from that dog a few gens back. If u own the ped you can see the unknown parts of the ped but what i see dont look bad.

Judging from the ped Miller had some well bred dogs and bred some decent dogs himself. I dont know a bit about Miller but it seems he started with this dog a few gens back http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=78433. Thats a pretty pedigree off some GOOD DOGS.


Looking at the ped I wouldnt consider that dog a staff by any means. I am suprised the dog is bred like that myself.

IMO (like u asked for it ) breeding him isnt any different than a person with "gamedogs" that doesnt look at their dogs but has winners up closer in the ped.

 

I say get the pup and if she turns out then i would love to stick her to my male for a pup deal. He has made the grade and i will be breeding him to all my females in 2009 to see what he produces. And BoiBoi you know i would love to stick Red Tank to your dog on your terms.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=291941

 

Yeah, there was lots of that, I admit. What can I say, I was having a good day. You can only take someone nipping at your heels so much before you turn around and do something about it. Believe that this has been going on for a while, and things just finally came to a head. I have no reason to debate with that particular member, because I really don't even want him talking to me. At all. Not on this forum, other forums, in my photos, via PM, nowhere. I just wanted to make sure I made myself abundantly clear this time.

And no, I have no reason to call you a whiny little bitch. You aren't up my ass like a dingleberry all up and down these forums.

 

Like I said, potentially. You never know. If you feel you can do it, then go for it. It was simply a bit of advice..no need to get worked up over it. Do what you want, when you want, how you want. Not every dog is suitable to do all those events, even in dogs bred for said type of activites and Im sure you are aware of that.. that's my reasoning for lookinf for kennels that do compete.. and yes, while most dogs probably do not have the multitude of acheivements your dog does, there are certainly a few out there that have some..
but then ask yourself why arent there alot of game bred dogs with titles like that??