raw feeding

ok I should be fine then I had the entire piece frozen for an entire day before I had fed it to her, do you know which parasite this is?

 

Salmon (salmonid fish) and other anadromous fish (fish that swim upstream to breed) can be infected with a parasite called Nanophyetus salmincola. Overall, the parasite is relatively harmless. The danger occurs when the parasite itself is infected with a rickettsial organism called Neorickettsia helminthoeca. It’s this microorganism that causes salmon poisoning.

 

I soak the frozen fish in warm water for a couple mins while I'm putting together the feeds....then shoot them in the bowls all thawed out!

 

stpfan, what type of fish do you feed? I am going to the store later this afternoon and I am very convinced to buy fish this time but I am just not to certain on which ones provide the best in yours or anyone's opinion?

 

ive been reading up on feeding raw and was wondering why they recommend feeding a variety of different meats....the reason why im asking is that i can get chicken for dirt cheap.
Variety of vitamins and minerals as has been stated. Why feed chicken? Nothing natural about it, healthy, nor is it a "meaty" ingredient. Most use it simply because it's cheap, plus they know nothing about canine nutrition. Truth is it's much cheaper and better for the dog to be feed a premium kibble than what 99% throw in a bowl and call a "raw diet".



they always recommend not to switch kibbles to not upset your dogs digestive track so why is raw feed any different?
Only cheap, crappy super market kibbles "recommend" that. You can switch premium kibbles daily without any issues to your dogs GI track.

 

Well I think 99% is an exaggeration lol but I do agree greatly that most people don't understand how to properly feed a dog. Mainly because unless you study a dog's digestive sytem and understand how their bodies break down and absorb different foods, you can only make assumptions about what's best for them. There's a lot of misinformation and opinions out there about raw diet. The best thing anyone can do is read everything and decide on their own what makes the most sense. That's what I did.

This is why I only feed whole prey, not bits and pieces of store bought meat... because there's no measuring ratios and whatnot. Nature does it for you. It's more expensive but I believe it to be better for my dog. I still haven't switched over to raw completely. I feed every variety of Evo on rotation, soaked in warm water for about 10 minutes. With the P&G buyout though, I guess I'll have to start feeding Orijen.

 

is chicken really that less of a nutrition? :confused: I feed mostly chicken because it's mostly supplied around here but I do have lamb and beef as well which I am starting to incorporate more of, now I mainly switched to raw because I was highly convinced that it is the better option for dogs so there I began my own research as well and found it more convincing to finally start off. Now I am reading along this thread and it feels like people are either saying there is really only one best option or it's not really worth it. Like texasbulldogs said

(Truth is it's much cheaper and better for the dog to be feed a premium kibble than what 99% throw in a bowl and call a "raw diet")

now how accurate is this? what are you considering that thrown bowl of a "raw diet"? I feed my girl
65% muscle meat
20% bone
10% heart
5 % liver
so is that applying towards that thrown bowl of raw diet again? I am just trying to expand further on this mainly because I don't want to be sitting here feeling like my dog is truly not receiving what she should be needing on a daily basis. So for anyone to help me out here who really has experience with this I will be gladly appreciative (sorry I don't mean to hijack the thread)

 

Seriously now, a little misinformation does go a long way. You'd probably find that you couldn't pay those of us that feed chicken to our dogs to use that dried-out killing floor scrapings and vitamin powder blend they call "premium kiblle" to our dogs. But, to each their own. Just because some folks out there open a bag of drumsticks, throw them in a bowl and call it "raw feeding" does not mean that it all there is or all that one should do. As far as natural goes, well....judging from the amount and stench of the waste that comes out of dogs fed raw versus "premium kibble, there really is no contest, is there? As far as healthy etc., I can say that on most days I could take what I feed to my dogs out of their bowls, put it on the grill, sit with a beer and eat it myself. Can you say the same about the "premium kibble" you scoop out of your bags? After all, it is cooked already, so you save a prep step. And like you said, it does have those "vitamins." As far as premium kibble being "cheaper." That's just a joke. With a little planning and willingness to get your hands dirty, feeding raw is a hell of a lot cheaper than feeding "premium-priced, processed, by-product meal- even with the cost of the freezers and the electricity to run them figured in (I'm a penny-pinching, Kilowatt hour calculating SOB, so I know). Now that I think about it, I will concede that over time it may cost less to feed a dog premium kibble. After all, In all the years I've been playing with dogs, I've never had them recover so quickly, look so young so long, or live longer than they have over the last decade I've been feeding them raw chicken. So, now that I really think about it I figure that with the hounds hanging on an average of five years longer on chicken, the kibble-fed route may be cheaper. So, I guess you're right. Thanks for the insight.

 

I fully agree thank you, I can see it in my girl how much she has improved and over all just gives me that feeling that she is eating as good as she can be and it's going to continue as she gets older and older guaranteed better then she was on that "premium kibble" plus the chicken she gets is organic :p

 

No no no. Don't be discouraged by Texas' post. Everybody has their opinions. I agree with him to an extent but its a very complicated situation.

Not all kibble is "bad" per say. Some companies pride themselves on putting together human quality ingredients in a clean facility. However, kibble is always cooked and cooking alters amino acids, the building block of just about everything in your and your dogs body. That's why at best its good to at least supplement with raw, unaltered foods. (Not to mention kibble is terrible for teeth so a good chew is needed to clean them!)

You also have to keep in mind that just because you're feeding uncooked foods, doesn't mean your dogs diet is better off than a premade/cooked one. If you do a little research on the farming industry, you'll be disturbed. Unless you're feeding organic, free range, humanly raised animals, don't be so sure that the raw diet you're feeding is better than what they put in the best kibble.

 

I feed Sardines or Jack Mackeral only, for $2 they come in whole pieces, frozen in a plastic bag and about 8-10 pcs in each bag...haven't tried any other kind of fish though I'm open especialy if there cheap...now I feed this 2-3 days in a row and then switch to another protein source for another 3-4 days which is most likely chicken quarters or beef.

 

This is why I only feed whole prey, not bits and pieces of store bought meat... because there's no measuring ratios and whatnot. Nature does it for you.
Yeah right, nothing to do with nature in regards to animals most feed. Please list it and we'll see what you believe is factually false!

I feed every variety of Evo on rotation, soaked in warm water for about 10 minutes.
LMAO...EVO? Thanks for making my point perfectly clear! You do realize if liking that company-you could just purchase Innova adult and actually get more meat protein per volume versus EVO plus save a ton of money? Though that potato protein is well worth the extra cost even at the expense of getting less meat protein for the dog-right? You can't even pick out a quality, premium kibble yet want to have us believe you can make an appropriately designed diet for your dog?

is chicken really that less of a nutrition?
You're feeding something and clueless to what it's actual nutritional value is? Given your lack of knowledge on your main ingredient and protein source. No surprise you'd be clueless to the huge nutritional value differences in chickens feed; all grain-fed, factory-farmed, organic and commercially free ranged, backyard/pastured, etc? Now if you aren't aware of such nutritional differences...how can you compensate for them in your dogs diet? Out of all those ways a chicken it typically fed/raised-only one doesn't produce chickens that are too high in Omega 6 fatty acids all the while being deficient in Omega 3. You do know there is a ratio for the Omegas, meat to bone, etc for dogs?

so is that applying towards that thrown bowl of raw diet again?
Yes! You actually think that's a balanced diet or one that would be over time? You've mentioned feeding chicken quarters, legs,wings, backs, thighs, etc. Those percentages you made up-nothing but a guess and poor one at that. You claim to be "feeding 20% bone" in your diet. Are you clueless to the facts? Chicken backs are 49% bone, wings are 30%, chicken quarter almost 25%, etc and none of those ingredients qualify as "meaty". Guess you believe feeding too much bone in a diet doesn't go beyond constipation and dry skin? If taking all that out of the equation-you really consider that a properly balanced diet? If not meeting a dogs nutritional requirements with a "natural diet" what's the point of even feeding one? What are you doing about the improper calcium:phosphorus ration, excessive sodium and potassium, abundances of missing vitamins and minerals, etc? Pretending a dog doesn't need them or just ignorant to it all and unaware the dogs is relying on his reserves to fulfill those needs...sure they'll never run out!


You'd probably find that you couldn't pay those of us that feed chicken to our dogs to use that dried-out killing floor scrapings and vitamin powder blend they call "premium kiblle" to our dogs.
What a bunch of crap...care to make up more? Please list one premium kibble manufacturer that uses "dried-out killing floor scrapings and vitamin powder blend" in their premium kibble.

As far as natural goes, well....judging from the amount and stench of the waste that comes out of dogs fed raw versus "premium kibble, there really is no contest, is there?
Oh how I must of missed or forgot all about birds and fowl being a large part of the evolutionary diet of canids. Given you mentioned "stench" it's obvious you've never feed a premium kibble. You're right; "there really is not contest" I can easily prove premium kibble is vastly superior to any diet you're feeding. You can only "guess and wish" as you have no actual knowledge or understanding of canine nutrition to back up your claims nor can you design an appropriate diet for a dog.

As far as premium kibble being "cheaper." That's just a joke.
Gaea cost $52.50 deliver to your door, which equals $0.31 per cup
Fromm Adult Gold-$42.49, which equals $0.28 per cup
See no joke-actual facts and prices anyone on this board can get. Now, show use all how you're raw diet is cheaper. Not only is your raw diet not cheaper it's not even close to meeting the dogs needs.

However, kibble is always cooked and cooking alters amino acids, the building block of just about everything in your and your dogs body. That's why at best its good to at least supplement with raw, unaltered foods. (Not to mention kibble is terrible for teeth so a good chew is needed to clean them!)
While that is true...you seem to be clueless to the fact after all that "cooking" and kibble has cooled...all those vitamins, minerals, pre/probiotics, etc are added back to it. So while a person knows what kibble is nutritionally producing...raw feeders like you "guess". How is kibble "terrible for teeth"? Let's assume you're correct...easily countered with a simply chew toy. Can you correct your dogs diet deficiency's so easily? Of course not given you don't even know the dogs needs, what it's getting, not getting, etc! But how care about that crap...they dog will have great teeth.

 

Alright this is really hard to break down your post and reply like I want to using my phone but ill give it a shot.

I buy frozen feeder animals such as rabbits, mice, guinea pigs, rats, and quail of all life stages because from what I've researched fat, protein, vitamin E, etc. levels vary with age. I occasionally also buy chicken ...from a different source but they're chickens are raised on a free range farm, fed a proper diet, not given antibiotics.

As for the Evo, I didn't pick it because of the protein levels, I picked it because its grain free. My dog needed to be on a grain free diet because of her health. Where did you manage to find the amount of meat going into the regular Innova? I know the formulation of Evo because its clearly written on the bag lol and on their website.

Do you have an ingredient list for Gaea? Fromm adult gold is a joke. I don't want my dog eating grain fragments, yeast, or menadione. Sorry.

You talk of deficiencies in raw feeding but not of the ones in kibble. Yes they add supplements to them. So what? They are synthetic. They don't compare to raw nutrients. Plus I'm sure years from now, when science is more advanced, they will find "new" complex vitamins/minerals that they havent been able to replicate yet.

I'm curious as to what makes you so qualified in dog nutrition Texas.

 

BTW I love how you go from saying chicken is unnatural and unhealthy to recommending a kibble with chicken as the main protein source lol.

I forgot to comment on the dental aspect as well. Tartar and bad breath plague dogs who eat kibble. Most dogs fed it could use a good cleaning by 3 years old. By 6, its almost necessary. Whereas I have heard from numerous raw feeders that their dogs teeth couldnt be in better shape. I've seen the results myself. It's something that no toy can do, at least not with my mutt. Yes, I realize this has nothing to do with nutrition but it certainly does factor into a dogs well being.

 

I buy frozen feeder animals such as rabbits, mice, guinea pigs, rats, and quail of all life stages because from what I've researched fat, protein, vitamin E, etc. levels vary with age. I occasionally also buy chicken ...from a different source but they're chickens are raised on a free range farm, fed a proper diet, not given antibiotics.
Okay lets say you do...how is that better? Many things lacking in those animals especially with the type of feed those feeders are given. You nor anyone else trying to argue how better raw is has yet to even mention specifics of what you feed, broke it down, nothing...that cause y'all can't? Many lacking things in all those ingredients you've list above.

As for the Evo, I didn't pick it because of the protein levels, I picked it because its grain free. My dog needed to be on a grain free diet because of her health.
Of course that's the reason, we all know how grains are bad but potato is great and dogs flourish on it. It couldn't of been something else could it?


Where did you manage to find the amount of meat going into the regular Innova? I know the formulation of Evo because its clearly written on the bag lol and on their website.
I know and speak regularly to 3 of their nutritionist, along with many others. Of course you do...please tell us the percentage of potato within that formula? Hint...much more than the amount of "grains" in Innova. Can you supply us with a raw protein source over 20%, many ingredients you've list don't even break 15% protein levels. Which is good...but you find it necessary to feed 42% if feeding kibble? It's clear...you have no clue what you're doing or feeding.

Do you have an ingredient list for Gaea? Fromm adult gold is a joke. I don't want my dog eating grain fragments, yeast, or menadione. Sorry.
You say that yet lack any proof to back up your claims. Still waiting for your actual specific raw diet you feed your dogs. So that we can compare yours versus kibble and factually see which is better. If scared...I'll use Diamond green bag-bet I still win.


You talk of deficiencies in raw feeding but not of the ones in kibble.
I'm supposed to take your stance too within this debate? You and others are the ones claiming how a raw diet is better-yet have failed to produce anything to support that argument.


Yes they add supplements to them. So what? They are synthetic.
Again making crap up...I can list plenty of chelated vitamins and minerals within various kibbles.




BTW I love how you go from saying chicken is unnatural and unhealthy to recommending a kibble with chicken as the main protein source lol.
I never once recommended a kibble in this thread-only used 2 premium ones to factually prove my point-it's cheaper and better to feed kibble. It's people like you and raw diet feeders in general that go around claiming "you're feeding a natural diet" when it's factually inaccurate. Not one person even knew the bone content of the pieces of chicken they are feeding, deficiencies, etc. Yet expect people to believe it's "natural and better", get outta here with that made up crap! I just listed the very basics to get the thread stated. With all these proponents of raw feeding...nothing other than useless opinions, guesses, etc have came to support your statements of; "it's better, cheaper, etc".

Whereas I have heard from numerous raw feeders that their dogs teeth couldnt be in better shape.
Here we go again with the "I heard" crap.

 

How is it better than kibble? Well I like knowing what my dog and cat are actually eating as opposed to what some giant pet food company labels on a bag. I might not be able to say, "I'm feeding a complete and balanced diet" according to AAFCO standards but I do know an approximate analysis.
Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey - RodentPro.com

So what is it you want me to break down for you? I already said what i feed. I don't measure things out like a lot of people do. I either give my dog and cat Evo or they get a feeder animal. I don't schedule certain animals on certain days or anything.

As for the Evo, I'm not big on the potatoes being in there, trustk me. However my dog is doing great. She's been seizure free since she started eating it. I've been able to dramatically reduce her medication that nearly killed her. She's like a new dog.

Please tell me where in this thread I said raw was better than kibble? I didn't post here to debate. You called me out so I just defended myself and my beliefs. I know what works for my pets. I'm not forcing it on anybody. In fact I even agreed with you about many homemade diets being deficient in some way.

You shouldn't act like everyone who disagrees with you is incompetent lol. I'm open and willing to learn so if you want to teach, then do it. Don't call me a fool.

 

So answer this for me then dog nutritional professor, since raw is apparently not correctly fed to our dogs by us owners and that they are receiving so much less then they should be receiving, who brought all the "premium" kibble out to the dogs in the wild and fed them the exact ratios that your listing here if they decided to hunt and eat their dead raw food? which we all know now is actually killing our dogs instead of feeding "premium kibbles" that have "chicken, beef, lamb, horse, buffalo, etc" in them anyways :rolleyes: oh that's right, they add ONLY everything else to make them the golden dog foods with NOTHING but everything if not 99% of only what a dog needs all that processing and grains and carbs I am sure that doesn't harm them the slightest bit compared to an actual dead chicken, rabbit, lamb, beef etc.

Tell you what you can continue to be professor dog nutritional and act like we are harming our dogs for feeding them something natural to their diets and we will call it a day because there is absolutely no way on earth I am going to agree with you and your professionalism on "dog food" because you already have the mentality that only you will be right and only you know what is best for a dog's nutritional need and that's fine in your own little world, but not when your going to come in a direct manner and act like I am actually harming my dog by feeding her raw food :rolleyes::dogstare:

 

As much as I admire the tenacity and sticking to your failed argument, all that really needs to be said is that anyone who has done even a half-assed raw diet for a little while knows better that what you're trying so hard to argue. Is it a little more time consuming and messy? Yes. Is it a little harder to plan a keep-diet down to the morsel? Yes. Do you have to use your eye and scale a little more and food-scoop-condition a little less? Undoubtedly. But, anyone who has tried it, and stuck to it knows that your argument is so full of......holes, it isn's worth getting insulting over. The dogs just look better, act better, and smell better eating a good raw diet than they do eating kibble. Period, end of story, thanks for trying so hard.

 

Please tell me where in this thread I said raw was better than kibble?
You didn't but isn't that the reason you and others are feeding it-cause it's supposed to be better? You saying you feed it because it's worse and reason you recommend it?

i didn't post here to debate. You called me out so I just defended myself and my beliefs.
If you look -you're the one that responded first to my initial post.

You shouldn't act like everyone who disagrees with you is incompetent lol. I'm open and willing to learn so if you want to teach, then do it. Don't call me a fool.
I don't they do it for me! It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me. It's just common sense if you're clueless on a subject...you don't go giving out information on it to others. Just look throughout this thread and it's very clear. Multiple people stating they feed this or that, how raw is better, cheaper, better for teeth, etc. Yet not a shred of evidence to back up their outlandish claims. Majority are clueless in regards to canine nutrition and only logical they can't prepare a diet plan better or even equivalent to average run of the mill kibble, let alone a premium one.

So answer this for me then dog nutritional professor, since raw is apparently not correctly fed to our dogs by us owners and that they are receiving so much less then they should be receiving, who brought all the "premium" kibble out to the dogs in the wild and fed them the exact ratios that your listing here if they decided to hunt and eat their dead raw food?
Ummm...same person that went out to the field and feed those prey items? Your argument is weak and doesn't hold up as you're trying to pretend you're feeding your dogs the same quality of ingredients as a wild prey item and allowing your dog free range of the world. So that when his body is telling it to eat/scrounge on x,y,z to make up for it...your do has the same ability. I factually gave you information on the crap you're calling a meal and it's anything but. You are ignoring and trying to act like it's a complete meal or will be over a course of time. Which is hularious, you're trying to debate a topic you're clueless about. It's evident by your post within this thread.

which we all know now is actually killing our dogs instead of feeding "premium kibbles" that have "chicken, beef, lamb, horse, buffalo, etc" in them anyways
How much crap are you going to make up? Please show use those studies on the harmful effects of premium kibbles! You can't can you given you made it up?

they add ONLY everything else to make them the golden dog foods with NOTHING but everything if not 99% of only what a dog needs all that processing and grains and carbs I am sure that doesn't harm them the slightest bit compared to an actual dead chicken, rabbit, lamb, beef etc.
Again more made-up, fictitious crap from you! You mentioned your meat sources in post #12 and proved your idiocy. You're not feeding anything remotely comparable to Purina Dog Chow, let alone a premium kibble. You make up a lot of crap, still waiting for you to actually back up what you're claiming. Please show us your dogs diet and tell us why it's better-like you claim. I know that's asking way too much of you and something you couldn't do if you wanted to nor will you be able to 10 years from now.

Tell you what you can continue to be professor dog nutritional and act like we are harming our dogs for feeding them something natural to their diets and we will call it a day because there is absolutely no way on earth I am going to agree with you and your professionalism on "dog food" because you already have the mentality that only you will be right and only you know what is best for a dog's nutritional need and that's fine in your own little world, but not when your going to come in a direct manner and act like I am actually harming my dog by feeding her raw food
Again with the "natural" crap...how is it natural? A question as basic as that, even you should be able to answer...what you can't cause you made it up and it's factually inaccurate. Of course it's me and my mentality...that makes you clueless and unable to even back up the crap you're claiming. It couldn't be you're just clueless and know nothing about canine nutrition all the while living in a fantasy world of your dogs diet is better cause it's "raw".

As much as I admire the tenacity and sticking to your failed argument, all that really needs to be said is that anyone who has done even a half-assed raw diet for a little while knows better that what you're trying so hard to argue.
Yes, clearly everyone see can see you and others in this thread make crap up and are incapable proving your argument. If so much better..surely you can factually prove it? Can't you state your diet, give your reasonings behind it being better compared to the two kibbles I mentioned...heck use Diamond green bag. You keep saying how it's this or that...your opinion is useless and doesn't make it better. I gave very basic reasons why it's not and can give many more. Can't you give...one reason why or something to back up your claims?

anyone who has tried it, and stuck to it knows that your argument is so full of......holes, it isn's worth getting insulting over.
Again...making up crap? Please I'm still waiting to hear and see you show us all how a raw diet is cheaper-like you mentioned. I clearly broke down the cost per cup for 2 premium kibble brands based on a price anyone on this board could get. Since their is so many holes in my argument-point them out? You can't cause you make crap up as you lack the knowledge and facts to support your claims.

 

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