Breeding for Game & Health?

Breeding for Game & Health?

I have a question that's been bothering me for quite some time. I'm not here to start a big debate, I swear If it does become a flaming match, just lock it.

I notice that a lot of 'game' dogs seem to have poor physical soundness: bad angulation, bad hips, jutting elbows, etc. However, because of their preformance ability, they are revered and bred.

My question is, wouldn't a physically sound gamedog make a better gamedog? It would be able to preform at it's highest level, having both sturctural strength, and gameness?

Would it be possible to incoporate health tests into ones breeding regimin, and only breed those dogs with good structure who have proven to be game?

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

see i haevnt noticed the things you are talking about coming out of the GAME breeders. their dogs tend to be slimmer and more athletic looking. i see a lot of what your talking abuot coming from fad breeders.

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

I see it sometimes. of course, not as much as the fad breeders as you say.

I'll try and pull up some pictures, give me a second.

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

You know I have to afree with Seal,game dogs that I've been around seem to be more healthy.

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

I want to believe that a true to the breed breeder wants them to be the best that they could be inside and out. Why would someone not breed for physical soundness? this why I leave the breeding to the people that know way more then me.

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

Regards,

B

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

Thanx B, you answered my question.

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

Ok, I know I don't post much, but this has crossed my mind as well. What if a hereditary heart defect pops up with a dog at the age of 7 or 8 and the dog has already been bred a few times, now there are puppies/dogs off of it prone to heart defects.

Or what about luxating patellas, elbow dysplasia, hip dysplasia? All of which are hereditary and can be painful to crippling depending on severity, all of which can show up later in life, and all of which can NOT be seen by the naked eye. Sure, you would probably be able to tell a dog that has SEVERE hip dysplasia, but these are bulldogs, do you expect them to walk around limping and whining just because they have mild hip dysplasia?

From the PennHIP site:
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Canine Hip Dysplasia (CHD) afflicts millions of dogs each year and can result in debilitating degenerative joint disease (DJD) of the hip. It is estimated that more than 50% of the most popular large breed dogs will show x-ray evidence of CHD. Many will suffer from osteoarthritis, pain, and lameness, costing owners and breeders millions of dollars in veterinary care, shortened work longevity, and reduced performance.[/font]

http://www.offa.org/

http://www.pennhip.org/

It doesn't take that much effort or money to test for hereditary issues. If the 'show' breeders can do it, why can't the performance breeders? Surely a performance dog would seem the more logical choice to have it's health screened.

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

Quite simply to answer your question, nothing of the above mentioned are common problems with working dogs! They don't need to be screened because they can't succeed with these sorts of health issues. APBT on the whole have been used to correct other working breeds due to their overall great health. Only recently with show and large bred dogs that are basically crosses have you started to see these issues with dogs some people ignorantly claim are "American Pit Bull Terriers". It has been a notorious problem that other working animals have slowly had degraded performance once the "show" scene takes over. They value more how an animal looks that how it "works". I've seen a few "show" dogs with perfect looking conformation yet obvious ailments when they run or jump. These dogs look to be in great shape but they have joint and hip issues caused by people breeding what in their opinion "looks" good. German Shepards are another perfect example of a breed that was ruined by hobby and show breeders. There are some attempts to ressurect these breeds with smart crosses and then a linebreeding program. The "show" crowd has successfully ruined many good working dogs by breeding for looks, size, color, and money!

Regards,

B

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

I notice that a lot of 'game' dogs seem to have poor physical soundness: bad angulation, bad hips, jutting elbows, etc. However, because of their preformance ability, they are revered and bred.
Have any examples or you mainly talking about exceptions rather than the majority?

My question is, wouldn't a physically sound gamedog make a better gamedog? It would be able to preform at it's highest level, having both sturctural strength, and gameness?
Of course it would/is better where you think the “standard” originated from-working dogs.

Would it be possible to incoporate health tests into ones breeding regimin, and only breed those dogs with good structure who have proven to be game?
One could but that is a waste of time if one doesn’t “work” their dogs. Being no health test will tell a person if their dog can handle said duties required of it. If working ability is a priority the health will always remain.

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

Good answer.....

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

Ah, but see how would you know these problems aren't prevelant in performance dogs unless you screen? I mention hip dysplasia in particular because, yes, a dog can and will perform with hip dysplasia. Even breeds with less of a pain threshold still perform with HD. It doesn't mean that it isn't any less hereditary. I agree that the show circuit has caused a lot of damage and many health problems have cropped up due to no regards for performance. I just don't see the reasoning in not wanting to make sure your performance stock is as healthy as can be.

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

Thanks for the input. I saw an image on this site, I can't seem to find it. However, it was of a dog standing on a treadmill. Everyone was commenting on how beautiful the animal was, and another member stated that the dogs elbows jutted out. They claimed that looks didn't matter, it was only about gameness.

But what if that dog had a straight, well angled front? Would it make him a better preformer? Who knows.

I'm going to look up the pictures. I'm going to try and not use other members own dogs, as that would seem like a direct insult at them.




Honeybunch had a very straight rear. She's a poor example.



I wish I had recent photos of gamedogs, but your right, most seem near perfect when it comes to conformation.

Guess I was beat,

-Michelle

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

I don't think you ate my entire post The point of my post is that a true gamebred dog that has been held to standard and worked do NOT have these issues. This is not a problem with the breed especially when they are in standard size 25-50 lbs. The freaks and monsters 70-100+ lb dogs have these issues because they have been bred with other larger breeds that are known for these problems. These problems are not prevelant in working dogs and there have been people that have tested their stock. There shouldn't be a need for it if you are breeding the dogs how they are supposed to be. The breed is NOT know for these issues. Even the most pain tolerant dog will move differently then a perfectly healthy example especially as they age. The breed is very healthy in its true form.

Regards,

B

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

Well notso much as bad hips and stuff like that but some bloodlines do throw more stockier dogs than others. I have a question if u had a dog with good structur besides him being a little stocky but he done everything right would u still breed to him?

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

What true bulldog bloodlines throw stocky dogs?

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

All bulldogs appear to have straight rears when they lean forward like that. Looking at her (as you view it right) rear leg you can see nice angulation. My bulldogs lean like that when they stretch or are looking hard at something. Their rear ends are fine but look quite straight in certain poses. I can't say anything about the other dog because the picture is a bad pose and angle.

Regards,

B

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

Can't argue because I've just got a rescue at the moment, but I'll be health testing my performance dogs when I'm in the position to keep some and I'll be sure to post up the results. Thanks for the discussion.

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

LOL... it was a pleasure. We need more laid back discussions and debates to pass out good information. I look forward to more discussions like this.

Kind Regards,

B

 

Re: Breeding for Game & Health?

I'm no expert on German Shepards but aren't true working dogs from Germany fully health tested before they are bred? I would think health testing would be something performance breeders would be all over in an attempt to make their yard the best it can be.