Clouse/Crenshaw by way of Steinberg

I tip my hat to you fellas. So much is lost throughout the years as stories are told from one to the next. Things like this, when minds and memories come together seem to put things in a better prospective. Especially when more than one side agree to what was seen.

Yrs back I remember W.Stockton working with a gent and some others gathering up info on the Butcherboy dogs. A website was to be made displaying all they compiled. Too bad it never popped up. So much can be learned through OTHERS experiences, especially their mistakes.

 

..member....way back.30'odd year or so...something simaler .....all the gate money gathered and it's over in 7/8...mins....the venue holder was the big winner,,lol..

 

One of the best threads yet, thanks for the history shared...

 

Fritz-Most came thru Coplin/Cole/Lewis breedings.

Take care.

 

This all sounds a little familiar Fritz. Again yrs ago a fellow from the deep south decided to add some wind and more "stay there" to his inbred midnight cowboy stock. Cant remember the out that was used but it seemed to work really well and after my close friend (BA) that live in the same area saw one win his first show he purchased him and later purchased the majority of the mans yard when do to health issues decided to get out of the dogs.

BA decided to continue the show career of the 1xw named Burg and sent him north as I had agreed to get him into shape. Good looking dog. Great build. Bigger than I was used to but not nearly as big as he looked. Looked 60 but was more like 52 otc and 46-48 when he was in top condition. He had huge cutters and last but not least, he was a very confident bulldog with a sound temperament like Ba and myself where used too and loved. Now this was before BA purchased the other dogs from the old fellow and after Burg won his second show impressively BA purchased 2 more show prospects. Littermate brother and sister that looked identical. Black Jack and Candy. Both dogs carried the same traits as Burg except color and Candy was skiddish as we called it! Frightened or unsure of everything at first. WE did not like this at all so BA let her be for a bit and focused on Black Jack. Sometime later BA was done measuring up Black Jack and decided to show him asap. It was during this time that he asked my opinion on purchasing several more of those dogs all at once and after deliberation and more info from the owner/breeder the deal was done. Apparently the only draw back the old man had noticed was 1-3 cold dogs per litter with the occasional skiddish dog here and there.
A show was coming up in the spring so we entered Black Jack at 51 and he was sent up my way to be put in to shape. Same as before. Big, beautiful, and confident from what I could see and I trusted BA's judgement on the rest so the work began. Everything was aces for the first couple weeks but as our long jogs got longer it would take us past a farm house with an old hound on a chain fairly close to the road. That hound would light up and act like Black Jack was a coon or rabbit. Well to my surprise Black Jack would shut down as soon as the hound would start snarling and growling. It got worse every night and I eventually had to drag Black Jack past the damn farm. Where the hell did the confident dog go? I was stumped and a bit disappointed but BA asked me to continue because the dog looked so good on his yard. As luck would have it 3 wks out I get a phone call and the show was off. DB had miss judged his dog's weight and instead of giving up to many lbs he backed out properly. Meanwhile BA had been trying to measure Candy and came to the conclusion she is one of the so called "cold ones" that the man warned him about. At the time neither BA or myself had little experience with cold animals and received several opinions from notable oldtimers, friends and breeders. After some historical influence from a breeder of the Eli line BA sent Candy to my yard to breed to one of my aging studs named Sammy do to his pedigree and his demeanor. Sammy thought he was the baddest thing ever made and between his 1 show win and 2 horrible yard accidents had done his best to prove it. So this was our genius fix. Breed bullet proof to fragile and see what happens. lol. Sammy had next to no teeth and his snout looked just like that of Hootens Pistol. He was low on sperm and hard to breed to go along with it and she was cold. So I don't see anything wrong with putting them both in a large kennel and let them breed as much as they want. Wasn't like they would hurt each other right? Wrong again me! Everything started as planned. She flagged and he wagged. They started there business about the time I realized my coffee was kicken in and did something else I never did before. I left 2 dogs breeding untied and alone. I went up to the house to use the bathroom and when I returned 10-15 mins later to find Sammy in the middle of the kennel lifeless and her in the corner balled up like she knew she did something wrong. Turns out she was a belly dog just like her uncle Burg and brother Black Jack and was the main reason BA like them so much.

Well to wrap it up I sent Candy and Black Jack home. BA found another show for Black Jack and he started acting weird and skiddish as soon as he got to the show site especially around the other dogs. He lost but showed his talent extremely well but only when confronted. He found a corner and never left it. Eventually about 1/4 of that blood BA bought showed to be sound show dogs about a 1/4 more seeming good in there own comfortable situation but proving otherwise down the road and the other half or so being cold or common. I got out of the dog show biz not to long after that and BA slowly transitioned his yard over to the redboy/jocko cross with a few different bred Eli dogs. Oh and I think remember the outcross with those dogs being some red devil stock but not for sure. Not that thats what I blame the strange disposition on. I always summed it to bad selective breeding. jmo.

 

I had two Eli/RedDevil dogs. One dumb as a box of Hammers (Male). Real ruff durable bulldog and had mouth for days. Couldn't hurt these dogs. But just lacked range, athleticism and wind. But in the first little bit he would have the other wondering what the heck they got their self into lol. The other was super smart and dang spooky. That dog just had a scary demeanor about her. Built like a male, confident as heck and just didn't play games. Alpha female to the core and was just a wrong move away from biting me at times but never did. I could just sense it. Never bred her for that reason. But she was all bulldog for sure. They both had 1/4 or better RedDevil in them. Eli/Carver/RedDevil blends.

 

I'm a little embarrassed I cant for sure remember the full blood of those dogs even though it was a long time ago. I usually remember that sort of thing. I might have it written down somewhere. No big deal but its gonna bug me now.

 

Yeah, Brubaker, those old dogs of ours would somehow surprise, amaze, and teach us when hardly expected.

I brought my Dusty bitch (a two-time winner) with me to visit a friend and tied her at his front gate. Before I could stop it, some friendly pooch came up to Dusty all friendly-like -- and in an instant my Dusty turned into the friendliest and most playful of dogs, bouncing around like an idiot with that friendly little poochy-woochy!

I was as alarmed as I would have been had Dusty grabbed hold of her and shook her bones -- not wanting my Dusty to learn such bad habits. Talk about your Jekyll and Hyde? Red Tina, Dusty's dam, would have been all over that mutt. Nothing with hair could approach ol' Tina. She wasn't that sort. But thank the fates for the "Jekyll" in my Dusty. For without it, apparently, she'd have been no better nor worse than a lap dog.

When you're in these dogs, wonders never cease.

 

...hell..would have like to have heard how them pups would have turned out if they had bred,,as planing something very simaler with a skitish bitch...good read..b-baker,,,

 

..yep thats true tdk,,if ya see it once,things get less surpriseing ,as years go by..thats a fact...lol...i know we all have dogs that ya would have to lock up real good when fire-works would go off/etc..had this bitch,she was a favorite off my mums,,every halloween/new years eve..we would bring her into the back kitchen for the night and she would settle,well one halloween i rang(from-work) to make sure she was brought in,she was +the family went out for the night,well i get back before all,walk into the b-kitchen no dog,,so i ring,,they have no clue,no way out of kitchen for her,spent 2 hours looking for her,could not figure out where she went untill the bottom drawer in a unit shook,she was curlled into a little ball in the drawer how she fit into it ,she was 36lb,one off the funniest things i'll remember.....

 

I have a book with a picture of Big Brads Red danger

 

Cool! Which book? What author? Much info on the dog? Does it mention me as breeder? I know Patrick liked to take credit for that breeding once I'd sold Red Danger's dam to him. Ha. I even called him once on the phone to ask him not to do that. Ha. Credit where credit's due, right?

 

Thanks Blue I would have liked to seen those pups myself. And poor old Sammy. He was top five in my book. Only managed to get one litter off of his crazy tail. 2 pups.lol. Thats how it goes sometimes. We do have some wild times with these nutty hounds don't we. I miss owning a bulldog. Its been a long time. I guess long enough. Kids are all older now and the whole reason I started on this forum is to maybe track down and buy me a well bred male and female to let run around the yard and get old with. Meanwhile lets tell some more stories Fritz. I kinda enjoy it.

 

One hell of a thread

 

TDK - that was one of them ol sayings like "dont be suprised when they go, be suprised when they stay" -

great posts from everyone! great thread - no doubt about it!

 

Great thread, alot of talented smart bulldogs seem to have that passive agressive demeanor which helps thier PERSEVERANCE...
Hank was a prime example of the longgevity that an active brain provided and most men that lack confidence cull these types...

 

Good thread love reading history