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Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by oldguy, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    Hiya fellas.. Found this today, don't know the background or politics, got no personal opinion, just thought some of the US board members might be interested...

    Garners reason for leaving ADBA

    Most of you know that I am a very high profile breeder who is a target of ongoing investigations, federal and otherwise. About one year ago, my lawyer learned through an investigator we hired that the government had been able to determine through contact with the ADBA the exact number of pups I have produced and sold during the past ten years. Armed with this information, the IRS is now auditing me, and heaven knows when it might evolve into a ...criminal investigation.

    Further, my investigator tells us that there is an ongoing attempt to link fighting dogs, particularly champions, recognized in the SDJ and other magazines to their breeders. Breeding a fighting dog makes you a felon just like fighting that dog does. The information provided to me indicates that at least one person at the ADBA has been cooperating with the government in this regard. The government has highly accurate and specific information about my breeding activities that could not be obtained from any other source.

    When this information came my way, I made the only decision that anybody with any nutsack would make. I made a decision to stop doing business with the ADBA. Why would I feed the dog that bites me? I could have done the comfortable thing and continued to follow the easy path, but that's what a cur does.
    In order to save face when I took my business elsewhere, the ADBA suggested that they had stopped doing business with me because I wouldn't send in DNA. This is complete bullshit. I had stopped doing business with the ADBA for six weeks when they came up with this idea. Sending in DNA would have been the final nail in the coffin. If the government had DNA on my Frisco dog, they could use it every time they bust anyone with a dog off Frisco to prove Frisco is the sire and then charge me with selling dogs to dogfighters. With today's intent laws, a DNA link from my stud to a busted dogfighter's dog would be fatal, irrefutable evidence.

    Do you people not understand this? Why in hell would you want to do business with an organization that will sell you out? When you register a dog with the ADBA, any government organization that wants to persecute you will have your name, address, and the number of dogs you own. They will know where you bank and your account number if you pay with a check. If you register a litter of pups, your name goes in the "breeder of fighting dogs" file.

    The truth is that the only dogs that the ADBA has targeted in their cover-up story is Frisco dogs born after January, 2001. Technically, any of you people that can't hear what I am saying can register any other of my dogs with the ADBA. However, if I know beforehand that you intend to put my name in their files, I won't do business with you.
    BronerFan and david63 like this.
  2. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. CH Dog

    ADBA used it in the beginning, later switched to B.F.K.C. as I liked the man behind it.

    Bad news about T.G, it really gives something to think about.
    david63, BronerFan and stickler like this.
  3. ngamla

    ngamla Big Dog

    I dont trust registries, but wasnt the DNA issue around Frisco from way back around early 2000s?
    david63 likes this.
  4. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

    And he still running with the ADBA .
    F.W.K. likes this.
  5. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. CH Dog

    Strange move, after reading his alarming letter.
    old goat likes this.
  6. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    I got nothing to offer here, don't own Garner blood and never registered a dog with ADBA my life.. I don't even have an opinion on Garner or ADBA, just saw the post above on Face book, had only been up there 19 hours and I re-posted #1 for the purpose of debate, #2 to give members the opportunity to prove/disprove the content, #3 because I had nothing better to do at the time :-B
    stickler and david63 like this.
  7. blueboy

    blueboy Big Dog

    I’m not certain but sort of remember it. Didn’t TG write the above, to deflect attention from himself? After some that had bought Frisco pups of frozen semen, did a dna test and it came back the pups had a different fathers. And the adba asked for Frisco’s dna to check on his offspring being registered with them. Since TH wouldn’t send in Frisco’s dna profile the adba stopped registering his frozen semen offspring.
  8. david63

    david63 CH Dog

    when the LA SPCA raid Floyd yard. ADBA Supplied the pedigree to LA SPCA.
    BronerFan, c_note and oldguy like this.
  9. u sure or u heard?
  10. david63

    david63 CH Dog

    I heard it from Guy
  11. PITPAL1

    PITPAL1 Big Dog

    The last pup I bought was off of a pair that had been bred down from 7 generation of pups on the bottom side that was owned by a little known kennel in Virginia that had refused to register any of their dogs. Their reasoning was similar to that of TG without all the bank account bullshit and circular argumentation.

    I will admit that I was skeptical of the accuracy until I was afforded the opportunity to look at their library of carefully put together pedigrees complete with DNA profiles from UC Berkeley. Who did my DNA testing when I bred gundogs.

    It’s a shame but you cannot blame a breeder for distancing themselves from the registries that with foresight or not create a roadmap for the beaurocrats and law enforcement agencies to your front door despite any knowledge of what someone might do with a dog u sell.

    you can certainly find a well bred bulldog without papers issued through one of the many registries, but it does place more responsibility on the buyer, and with that inherently makes it more difficult.

    my wife and I have considered entering the breeding business more for the experience than the money. Knowing that we would need to protect ourselves we began developing contracts for the buyers as well as starting a dna database. We’ve yet to breed a dog but already have over 4K in just the cost of start up and attorney fees.

    Garner has a ligitimate argument despite of his authenticity.
    david63 likes this.
  12. I know of someone having lawsuits as we speak due to online peds giving out their resources to be used against him. A very well known breeder and a great dogman, now vows to never register his dogs again. Problem is where does this leave us? Which registry is going to do right by us? Very upsetting to hear ADBA biting TG in the ass...
    david63 likes this.
  13. Simple enough folks.

    Dont registare your dogs.
    i mean cmon,we are in 2020.
    david63 likes this.
  14. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    The ADBA does not willing give out anyones information. The only way that happens is when they are subpoenaed to do so by a judge and therefore are legally required to do so as would any other registry. I've talked with Patty Bollock several times about this over the years and she always gave me the same answer back. Owning and registering them is not a crime nor has it ever been. The only way people are getting jammed up is because they are suspected of doing illegal things which has nothing to do with the ADBA or any other registry out there.

    The fix is simple, if you register your dogs, don't keep your address to the property your dogs are located at on file with a registry. Use a different address or PO box. Problem solved.

    Pedsonline is a different story. Same with here or any other forum. If you post on here or any other board and your under investigation, they will use what you type against you. Wardogs lawyer had a huge file on him and I that were all posts from here or in his case, a BJJ forum were screenshotted and saved in a file on us. Don't post reckless and you got nothing to worry about.
  15. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    There is nothing inherently wrong with registering ones dogs. If your involved in conformation, weight pull, wall climb or any other legit ADBA or any other registries sanctioned events, your dogs have to be registered to participate. For those who do register and don't participate in those things, it's still a good idea to pay the extra 8 bucks and have them send you the dogs show card.
    slim12 and Soze the killer like this.
  16. Sorry AGK...but i think were on the wrong page here.

    I doubt TG aimed what he said at the wall climeing and cofermation pet owners of this breed.

    Im talking from a proper dog prospective here.

    Im not saying theres anything wrong with registering a dog or dogs..
    but why???
    who gives a fuck what any registary thinks???
    cmon man!.these registrarys are just a money thing.eight dollas or not..

    Who are they to say anything?
    not only that.but im sorry.even a fool like me can see there dangerous.
    they get busterd mate and they gonna sing..
    cmon man!
    am i the only fool who can see this???.

    We all no ya dogs are bred great...
    what dose the adba(or any fucker)do in your favour???

    They will grass you up in the end mate.
  17. And all the best.

  18. But mate you just said it yourself...
    they are leagaly requierd to do so.

    To me mate.
    that makes em all fucking grasses!
  19. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I answered the question why register.
    I want to be able to participate in sanctioned shows as do many others. No buisness is going to put there bottom line in jeopardy for one if it's members. Don't matter if we are talking dog, cars or airplanes. Don't break the law and you have nothing to worry about. For the most part anyway. To each their own. Garner is a different story. He was registering frisco dogs when the dog was like 14. It's common practice they want DNA to prove it after hundreds of pups after the sires age is past 10 years old. It wasn't because he is who he is they would do that to anyone pumping out that many litters to a geriatric stud.

    The registries, whether folks want to use them or not show legitimacy of ownership. They also help against BSL and also have a fund to help people involved in unjust legal issues with the breed.

    Maybe we should put the blame where it's due, the people who get caught breaking the law not the registry that registered the dog. That's like being mad at your employer because your bank gave the feds info from your account. That's just a ridiculous place to put blame.
    GAMEONKENNELS likes this.
  20. Mate sorry but your wrong!
    so you want to be a part of weight pulls exc..mate thats fine.thats your choice.
    but mate.cmon.that shit aint got nothing to do with proper dogs!

    Mate dont even say it has.
    dont insult the breed.

    Those who break the law?
    LOL.pm me then mate.as im not discussing this on a public board if thats the case.

    ADBA are fucking grasses.
    mate please dont cover there actions up or i will loose respect for you.

    Im not arsed about this shitty sight mate.ban me all you want.

    But mate.please dont tell me these adba and any other fuckers arnt grasses...because mate.they dont give a shit about dogs.they care about money.
    same as any mate.

    Pm me mate if you wanna descuss this.
    but ill say now...
    public board or not.

    All the best.
    billbulldog likes this.

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