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Are they just freaks now?

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by ben brockton, Oct 24, 2022.

  1. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    Hard pressed to remember the last littermates to make a name for themselves in performance or production. Seems that the modern dogs are really just one off or freaks. Years ago there were plenty of siblings that were just as good or better than the more well known of the bunch. I hear about all these good dogs nowadays then inquiry about siblings and get crickets.
  2. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Great topic. I never really thought about it. But you are right it seems like the greats of today don't have a littermate to boot, or at least they are not well known.

    After a couple seconds of thinking I will give it a whirl.

    So many more people in the dogs now than ever but maybe the same amount of people doing dogs like way back when. The percentages of people owning dogs vs. people doing dogs are far less now than ever before.

    The littermates are more apt to be spread out and when they spread out they are then more apt to land somewhere dogs are not being done.

    That statement made sense in my head but I am not sure it made much sense at all.

    Great topic. Interested in the responses.

  3. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Feel about the same as slim said. Today people match pedigrees on FB instead of dogs in the box. The pedigree is now what makes the dog great to these newer people. I don't believe the dogs are freaks but more so that only one or 2 possibly from any given litter are even being checked at all let alone matched, that matched number is probably a lot smaller. People seem to want to skip right over the checking part and get right to the breeding part. They put fire emojis after their breeding posts online of the pedigree of 2 mutts that never seen a tooth whos parents and grand parents also never got looked at either. Dogs pedigrees have become the reason to breed rather than specific traits of individual dogs. Hard to breed complete animals if you don't know what one is lacking IMO.

    It could also be that people are just more private these days due to the national climate on the subject. In this day and age, if your living and matching dogs in the US and putting a title behind or in front of that dogs name online, you are asking for a knock on your door. Whether it's a hand knock or a foot knock will depend on the crazy type of shit you posting.

    Most people who get hemmed up today for matching dogs is because they wanted everyone online to know just how great they were. Peds online and even this site is used by prosecutors trying to convict in MANY of these cases. Screenshots of conversations online are almost always involved in these types of cases. They easily covict too since even one is so fourth giving with information these days publicly to people who really don't need to know anything. Be humble, check your own and stay private. Otherwise you'll just end up like all these other people who want a bunch of strangers knowing how great they are. Locked up and your dogs given the needle.

    Lol my brain is a bit all over in that post. I'm at work and got 30 other things going on while trying to spend some quality time on here lol.

    My bad, hopefully you get the geist. :))
    Revelator, david63 and ben brockton like this.
  4. Mashamplan

    Mashamplan Big Dog

    Too many with money and no background in the dogs get opportunities to purchase dogs or pups and these dogs become too valuable to match. Yeah right. Too valuable to match. Go figure.
    These guys that enter the fraternity so easily on the back of the cash they throw around are suddenly reputable breeders s few years down the line , using these pretty ped dogs that never did anything. All based on the reputation of the one or two siblings that ended up worked in proven hands. And this cycle repeats itself ad nauseam with fewer offs ending up in working hands because cash is king. Just my take on one of the reasons less and less siblings are making waves in the working world
    david63 likes this.
  5. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    AGK: "It could also be that people are just more private these days due to the national climate on the subject. In this day and age, if your living and matching dogs in the US and putting a title behind or in front of that dogs name online, you are asking for a knock on your door. Whether it's a hand knock or a foot knock will depend on the crazy type of shit you posting."

    Could be this. In the past, I bought dogs packed full of CH, GR C, ROMs up front and close in the pedigree. 25 years ago when I bred to GR CH Haunch his owner was 100% up front about everything with me, we had detailed conversations about EVERYTHING his dogs (he also had Crash and Bull) and we discussed their rolls from day 1. We had many, many long telephone conversations with nothing held back.

    12 years later I bought a son off 4 time winner Crazy legs who had the most packed ped possible, 2 GR CH, 2 ROM's, POR, just in the parents and grandparents. Citrus was much less forthcoming than the owner of Haunch, but I still got plenty of info and direct help when I had a serious yard accident.

    My current pup....the breeder never uttered one single syllable about anything illegal. Claimed to not even know what a roll, or test was or what proven meant. Nothing. Even long after I purchased the dog and we had built a good relationship. In the first two generations there was nothing except one Champion. I decided to buy the pup because...well first I am just a pet owner, but more because I loved how the dogs looked in video, I felt the breeder was a man of integrity (the number one thing I look for) the dogs were close by w/ in driving distance and only $700. I also did research and found that the mentor/bestie of my breeder was a guy who had proven dogs and the cops had been after for more than a decade (never able to hem him in). Another breeder in Mexico I have a relationship with who is forthcoming spoke very highly of the bloodlines. I also know that where I live probably has more good dogs than anywhere.

    Now I know that most dogs are curs until proven otherwise, but based upon what I have seen so far this may be the best dog I ever had. I know it may not mean much, but the littermates had to be separated at 3 months. Here drive and athletic ability are out of this world. I accidentally got the flirt pole too high the other day and her feet were a full 2 feet off the ground (a big no no w/ an 18 week old pup) yet she snatched the tether effortlessly and landed on all 4's perfectly. Were it legal I would bet money that this dog would prove to be 100% bulldog when she was older against any of these $3k dogs out of stacked peds (from, for example Mexico where you can still get away with more). But of course I would never break the law.
  6. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

  7. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    El titre, ship, recoil buck. 3 modern well known dogs 3 different countries I will assume that they wasn't the folks first dogs. Couldn't name any siblings do yall see a trend?
    Revelator likes this.
  8. ship background was from around this area than found his way to serbia and than further east
    I found it fascinating how fast the game expands as the country where ship comes from got them maybe 20 to 25 years ago
  9. Revelator

    Revelator Big Dog

    That was perfectly stated.
  10. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Great topic and great posts.

    I agree with AGK as well. It is a combination of a lot of things, especially today's climate.

    But the only rebuttal to that is there are seldom any secrets in these dogs and seldom are the really popular ones kept in house.

    I do agree the pedigree is the primary qualifier for making a breeding. Just to use names here, if ol' Joe has a winner, no longer is there a need for me to check the sister. I can simply say the littermate to ol' Joe's go-getter and that is reason enough. Then the next guy gets to say my male is a stud dog off the sister to the dog that won all the matches. Then when he is bred the dogs are basically three breedings and three owners away from the dog and the dog man that did all the work. Unfortunately, the pedigree pretty much says otherwise.

    From there it is the proverbial slippery slope. The dogs get watered down, the pedigrees 'look better', and the only thing better that than are the stories that are needed for that extra tid bit of validation.

    Thought provoking.

    AGK and Revelator like this.
  11. gimwitag

    gimwitag Big Dog

    Ship has plenty of winning siblings. He’s not one off. He just one off in production. Limited knowledge will lead many down a rabbit hole
  12. gimwitag

    gimwitag Big Dog

    47936B22-A9E8-429A-9E99-B9586E5B3FC7.jpeg Same litter and some hunted same night as siblings
  13. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

  14. gimwitag

    gimwitag Big Dog

    89D616E3-BE8D-4394-A88B-0252ACEEAD9C.jpeg Half brothers, sons nephews etc….
  15. gimwitag

    gimwitag Big Dog

    It’s a certain amount of magic that takes place when you don’t sell anything from a litter. Due to the hard pressed dog sellers littermates get scattered some don’t get the same chance they siblings got. Some fall off due to poor selection and still get bred. Maintaining a family and litter show what your in the game for. Selection don’t only take place with the pups in a litter it take place with the breeder. Is he going to sell sell sell or hunt hunt hunt
  16. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    Enlighten me because the only thing I see are siblings that look less than stellar.
  17. gimwitag

    gimwitag Big Dog

    https://pedigree-database.cz/details.php?id=356594 Ships daddy produced his share of dogs. Selection so different over there you could get the bottom of the barrel to produce here and it would be like breeding a game dog to a staff. Genetics and selection are two very different things.
  18. gimwitag

    gimwitag Big Dog

    Stop looking at father and mother and look at the families in ch ship. Look at the selection within those families. Many great dogs came together to make ship el titre and many others. The percentage of good dogs is always in crossed families stop breeding in on one trait it makes the dogs dumb. Breed for pitbulls that are smart and have what it takes to represent for themselves and not what’s behind them.
  19. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    You are just reinforced the observation in the op lol
  20. gimwitag

    gimwitag Big Dog

    Lmao you love to ride any wave. Your hate ship so much you made a post doubting him. 17 ch.

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