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Edward's (Bass') Molly Bee.

Discussion in 'APBT History' started by oldguy, Feb 26, 2024.

  1. stedz

    stedz Top Dog

    i think there was a bitch called Miss two eyes or somthing.but i know nothing about her.
    oldguy likes this.
  2. stedz

    stedz Top Dog

    Hopefully slim comes on here soon,and lets us know.
  3. reids skipper

    reids skipper CH Dog

    That through me abit when i looked at slims pedigree and it was miss two eyes
  4. stedz

    stedz Top Dog

    skipper and old guy, they are right lucky bastards in NC. in they LOL.
    reids skipper and oldguy like this.
  5. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    I often watch Bill's podcast on YouTube, it's a significant history resource and great place to watch some old boys, talking dogs and smoking bongs:D
    Bill stated recently how game a bulldog Two Eyes really was, then asked if Two Eyes could have beat Denny's Grand Champion Bo, Bill said not a chance! In fact he went on to state he believed Bo would have beat Grand Champion Zebo.. All good clean history and story telling, but it's great entertainment.

    Also worth mentioning it was Bill who was behind the Garret's Tater x Kitten's Peaches breeding that got sent to NKK and produced Joe Montana and CH.Boon, these dogs pretty much changed the UK dog game.
    reids skipper and stedz like this.
  6. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    @slim12 mentioned Miss Two Eyes in post #12 on this thread skipper.
    reids skipper likes this.
  7. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    You got that one right man!
    stedz likes this.
  8. reids skipper

    reids skipper CH Dog

    @oldguy .. didn't know bill was behind the montana breeding … years ago i had the 100 dollar keep by bill and it had nkk john wayne , taz , bolero etc on it … its a really great post this … i found it strange about the stuff off molly bee not scratching … theres a show bred stafford way back in mine who was the same …. Ch rebel ( white foot of sconce ) .. She lost to ch molly .. she wouldn't scratch either … strange trait that .. you’d expect them too , even if not for many
    stedz, Bulldoghistorian and oldguy like this.
  9. reids skipper

    reids skipper CH Dog

    Rebel was the mother to springviews tara
  10. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    Could be worse skipper.. Back in 80's I had dogs that scratched all day, but wouldn't hit a lick once they got there haha!
    reids skipper likes this.
  11. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Fat Bill's Two Eyes was a male out of his Bolero bitch and Mountain Man's Bandit. His eyesight was suspect early and later on he could barely see. He was one of those dogs that didn't look all that imposing on the chain but took to the keep as well as any and had a motor that was hard for others to maintain that pace. Later in life I heard he was blind, never directly from Bill, but from what I have heard others say and read.

    Two Eyes was bred to a Panther bred female called Loca. From that litter came Fat Bill's Miss Two Eyes. My partner at the time bought her. She was slick and smooth but had incredible mouth. She worked effortlessly to get where she could get you, but you couldn't her and from there she had a really nice combination of mouth and finish. On her last roll it was decided she would be matched (we had a small circle and sort of decided on things together, pooled out monies but the owner has the final say) and about that time Two Eyes passed. They decided to breed her.

    Her first breeding was to Patrick's Kasai (a Rick Rude/Toothless Jack bred Bolio male from Pat Patrick). He too was slick as glass but was a solid muscle. Absolutely freak pound for pound strong. It was said you could plow a field with him when he was on the other end of the lead. As Mr. Patrick described dogs, 'he was quite the dancer'. He had pretty good mouth, above average but what we expected from a straight Bolio dog. In his first breeding the dogs could really bite. The second one the same and by the third it was apparent he was throwing mouth to his litters. If the female could bite his puppies could really bite. If the female could really bite then his puppies were somewhat freak mouthed.

    Patrick's Kasai X Fat Bill's Miss Two Eyes made me two of the best dogs I ever owned. Cornbread and Chloe. I lost both to my own ignorance. One I got in a financial bind and had Chloe hooked. I sold Cornbread to ease the financial issue and in turn have the money to go out with Chloe. Chloe won in a very hostile environment against a camp that was "out of our class" and against a female that was their next great thing. They had won a bunch of shows over the last few years and this female was headed for big things. They 'let us in' because of the names on her pedigree not because of us. They were going to beat a fat Bill dog, a Matt McGhee dog, a Pulley dog all at one time. 61 minutes later their outlook, their record and their plans had been altered.

    Chloe was rubbed in her 2nd show. I was not smart enough to see several red flags along the way. They played me like a band instrument for an amount of money that was nowhere near what I thought would make someone rub another. They played me from the beginning to the end and I never saw it coming. Losing a really good bitch hurt, but knowing I didn't see it coming hurt even more. It was a lesson I learned in the hardest of ways.

    In Miss Two Eyes 2nd bereding she was bred to Patrick's Anvil.

    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [221328] :: PATRICK'S ANVIL (online-pedigrees.com)

    He was a good dog from Patrick with heavy mouth, not as smart as some, more of a plodder, but a good dog, nonetheless. I ended up with him because he was so hard to breed. He had pre-mature issues to say the least. If a female was in heat within smelling distance and you rubbed him on the head, he would drop his load on the ground. He could go from nothing to spent in no time at all. He was so quick it was hard to collect him. He didn't have to extend outside himself to let one go. I am sure if he were a person he would be in a trench coat jerking off in the bushes at the bus stop, just saying.

    I was suppose to get one out of the breeding to Anvil but it didn't work out. There was a male that went up north and did very well. A female that won once in SC. And the male that showed the most promise (we joke) was stolen. The owner had to go away for a state sponsored vacation/field trip at the taxpayer's expense. He got rid of most of his dogs on his own. When he got out his wife had converted this bad ass match dog into a bad ass couch potato. This dog lived the life of a king. She cooked "their breakfast" every morning and paid a kid down the road to jog around their block with him every day. When he came back home, he suggested he would roll the dog and pick up where he left off and she explained how much safer he would be if he were back in the joint if he touched that dog.

    She was bred to a Mims male named Bobby (Spiffy/Lucky) brother to DTA's Charlie (4XW) and Polly (2XW), Henry (1XW/1XLG) and Lucky Boy (1XW). She was a healthy as horse and about three weeks after the breeding she passed away unexpectedly in her box. Fine when we fed up but passed on during the night.

    If things were different, she would have made a bigger impact, maybe not on the game as a whole, but without doubts in our area.

    david63, stedz, oldguy and 1 other person like this.
  12. reids skipper

    reids skipper CH Dog

    Thanks for clearing that up @slim12
    david63 and oldguy like this.
  13. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Good dogs are everywhere but there was a stretch of time and a lot of old folks would say, "if you think you have a bulldog there is a stretch of Interstate 85 in NC that will let you know for sure".

    Basically, from the NC/VA line to the Greensboro, NC area was a hot bed. Then venture out toward the mountains a bit and that entire area was called Bulldog Country.

    This is my dogs are everywhere bit.

    I was walking Charlie for his third. There was a dirt road near here that was miles and miles long and seldom travelled. It was the perfect place to walk dogs or run them with a bike or four wheeler. People would drive from counties over to use that road.

    We had a late in the fall hurricane and there was a lot of damage. We qualified for relief and people from all over came for the cleanup. There were trailers and box trucks and homemade contraptions everywhere. With a truck and a chainsaw there was money to be made.

    I'm walking down this road with Charlie and a rickety old truck pulling a makeshift trailer and both looked like they were about to fall down in the road. It had Louisiana plates as it passed by. On the way back up the road the guy pulls along side me, leans out the window and I am thinking he will ask for directions. "That's a good-looking dog, what is he a 46?". I babbled and sounded like a re-re telling him it was a dog from the pound and I was using him to lose weight. It sounded really dumb as I said it. He laughed and drove off.

    All the way from Louisiana to NC.

    And Charlie won three times at 46. LOL


    stedz and oldguy like this.
  14. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    Good old stories there @slim12.. Thanks for taking time to share them!

    I've been taken for a fool a few times myself.. From driving in circles for miles on a magical mystery tour, that's deliberately intended by the home team to weaken my dog prior to a show, to that famous old chestnut.. "You'll never believe it mate! The fckn dog got on the front seat and ate my McDonalds off the dashboard while we travelled up here, it's the only reason he's 2lb over the weight limit, honest! Well pay the forfeit plus give you £250 if you go ahead!"
    And like Coco the clown and every other arrogant/naïve fool before me who got caught by the 'McDonalds burger trick', I went ahead!
    stedz likes this.
  15. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    When CH Angel won her third we were in the mountains of NC. They gave us the area to walk her out down this little dirt path. As Angel sniffed around looking for a place to dump, she grabbed something. Before I could grab her, she swallowed a Big Mac. About three feet down the path there was McDonald's Fish sandwich. She was over by whatever a Big Mac weighs.

    I voted to pay the forfeit and leave. One of the group said, "this is bullshit, fuck them and fuck their forfeit". The owner of Angel made the call to continue.

    She RIP'ed a 2XW female down from the Deadlift and Mayday/Barracuda stuff in forty minutes or so.

    Since then, I have considered a McDonald's Big Mac as a performance enhancer. LOL

    oldguy and stedz like this.
  16. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    Sounds like the old McDonald's burger trick back fired on them that time slim haha!

    I remember walking out my Charlie dog in the field a couple of weeks before the Champion Klogger show.. Charlie out in front on a 15 foot lead when he dived head first into a big pile of farm waste, next thing he appeared with a big buck rat in his mouth, shaking fuck out of it and swallowing it down all at the same time.. By the time I got near Charlie only the tail was hanging out his mouth, and by the time I grabbed him it was gone.. Thinking back now, the diet I fed Charlie was so poor, the rat was probably the only decent protein he got throughout his entire keep.

    Charlie stopped Champion Klogger in 1:17
  17. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    That is funny on the rat being his best protein. Time has fixed a lot of things.

    Back in those Molly Bee days the food of choice here was Field Trial. Back then it was like $5 or $6 for 50lbs. Sometimes it came with the feathers still mixed in the chunks. For the keeps Mr. Edwards had a hook-up and could get chicken necks for next to nothing. The Field Trial was the feed, it was supplemented with a handful of chicken necks and the supplement of choice was Clovite Horse conditioner.

    These dogs are amazing in a lot of ways but one of the more outstanding things is a lot of times they thrive in spite of us.

    oldguy likes this.
  18. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    Well at least Mr Edwards fed them chicken necks, but from a personal perspective, I have to admit what @slim12 stated above is bang on the money!

    I'm convinced 90% of the time during the 80's - early 90's, not only my own dogs, but others I've mentioned on this forum won 'IN SPITE' of their owners and not 'because' of them!

    A couple of times I conditioned on a kibble called Wafcol 14% Protein (nothing else, just kibble..) It looked like small chunks of Ryvita Crisp bread and for all the nutrition that was in it, I'd have been just as well feeding saw dust, so pushing my dogs faster, harder and longer, they was fading away right in front of my eyes, I was literally killing him, and because I was so convinced kibble was the scientific/modern way to feed a sporting dog, I was blinded by hype, sales marketing and bad advice from (supposed) better dogmen.

    I think green tripe also around 14% protein, and even if I'd just fed that and nothing else, then the dog would've ran better on it! Eventually I read Bob Stevens 'Dogs of Velvet & Steel' book, started feeding chicken livers, then beef hearts and Ox cheek and things started to get better, but on that wafcol 14%? The day before a test, my dog was dead on it's feet, couldn't even jump in the car. I rested him 24 hours and he performed like Gerard Butler in the movie '300'.

    Sometimes I wonder if dogs maybe ask themselves.. "WTF did I do in my last life to deserve getting owned by this idiot?"
  19. I Know some of the people but they never told me this crazy shit happened to them damn
    oldguy likes this.
  20. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    One of my favorite things in the dogs is that all the greats never made mistakes and never did dumb shit or have dumb shit happen around them.

    I have always thought it was just me.


    reids skipper and oldguy like this.

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