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nutrition when conditioning

Discussion in 'Health & Nutrition' started by CesarT, Jul 19, 2016.

  1. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    There are some carbs here and there but not enough to make it an integral part of the feed pan.

    I use brown rice that is cooked twice.

  2. Bones1

    Bones1 Big Dog

    Slim what’s your reason behind not using pork/fat ?
  3. MadMax209

    MadMax209 Pup

    Cooked twice? What's the reason behind that?

    How many % of the total feed would be the carbs?

    Do you notice any performance improvement when feeding carbs vs. protein/fat only?

  4. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    The increase in performance comes when ditching the carbs and increasing the fat content.

    When you cook it once it is cooked, letting it cool and cooking it again the grains split. The split grains when green tripe is added tot he meal there is better assimilation.

    When I am working a dog the carb content is really close to zero. A little here and there but not very much at all.

    david63 likes this.
  5. Sleep

    Sleep Big Dog

    Great thread...enjoy the raw knowledge you have for the learning dogmen like myself...Just wanted to ask u slim whats green tripes? And its importance
  6. ngamla

    ngamla Big Dog

    Uncleaned sheep or cow stomach
    slim12 and Capt. Roxy like this.
  7. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Raw green tripe is the stomach of ruminant animals (sheep/cows). They have multiple stomach chambers.

    The enzymes of the stomach will break down plant matter which a dog's digestive system is not really designed to do. It helps when feeding from a bag also as the dog will assimilate more of the dry food.

    It is sold in cans or it can be bought in 'chubs' which is raw frozen 10lb sleeves.

    The dogs will eat it like they eat nothing else. But it stinks like nothing else either. It is an outside activity.

    My preferred method is to buy the 10lb. frozen chubs and cut them into patties with a sawz-all and package them in smaller chunks. It only takes a couple of tablespoons per meal to work.

    The biggest draw back is it smells like what I would imagine it would be like to lick the ass out of a dead skunk.

    That bad.

    F.W.K., Sleep, AGK and 1 other person like this.
  8. ngamla

    ngamla Big Dog

    We get them fresh. And like Slim says the dogs love it
  9. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    How do they come packaged fresh?

    Always interested in a new way.

  10. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Lmao @ lick the ass out of a dead skunk.

    I got a bad taste in my mouth when I read that. :))
    david63 likes this.
  11. Sleep

    Sleep Big Dog

    wow kmsl it must be a real bad smell :D....thanks for the info tho
  12. ngamla

    ngamla Big Dog

    Slim they sell them in our butchers here in South Africa. Lots of people buy and clean it and cook it for human consumption. Its considered a delicacy. I get looked at strange when I tell people i dont eat tripe. Usually it comes with a " you dont know what you missing" comment. But my dogs enjoy it. And the grean one is full of predigested vegatative nutrients
    F.W.K. likes this.
  13. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    The pre-digested green nutrients is broken down to where they serve the dog a purpose, plus the enzymes will break down any veggie added tot he diet.

    I rented from a guy long ago who was a butcher by trade and did some processing at home.

    I fed it then not knowing it had the value or the aid in digestion for the dog. I fed it because it was free and the dogs loved. I fed them raw by convenience 28-30 years ago. I thought I was being cheap but as I learned more over the years I was doing a far better job than when I made the 'decision to feed dry food'.

    Funny how that works.

    I wish I still had access like you speak of around here. We have so many rules around processing that it is hard to land the free stuff as they would rather throw it away than give it away in fear of a lawsuit.

    I use to go to the grocery store and get the wilted/day old vegetables/fruits for the pigs. They use to just sit out on the dock and I would pick it up. Now they are forced by the USDA to toss it in the trash.

    Such a waste.

    SMD760 and F.W.K. like this.
  14. PITPAL1

    PITPAL1 Big Dog

    I think it’s vitally important to keep fat content in the feed no matter what stage of life or conditioning. I ran into this problem several months ago. I feed a mix of venison, long grain brown rice and turnip greens. The venison was so lean that they were not getting enough fat. It was causing several issues in their bloodwork despite having an amazing appearance. Now I will add in approximately 1 cup of lard for every 10lbs of venison.

    I’m also going to try mixing in some mustard greens as I know they are better, I just have a hard time finding them
  15. siccen

    siccen Big Dog

    The tiny bit of carbs I do give my dog justcjust because it's inwhat I eat comes in the form of white rice. I don't like brown rice because it's just harder for them to digest the hull and the bran. It's not doing anything at all for the dog realistically.
    As for the other parts of the diet is the usual "raw" duck, beef, chicken, lamb, buffalo, the occasional cooked fish, organ meat, bone, sinew, green tripe, with the occasional dark greens. Raw eggs, some times sunny side up, :)
    Salt, cayenne pepper (tiny bit) fennel seed, saffron, basil, etc... I enjoy infusing the raw meat I give with spices.
    Some pumpkin every now and then.
    Coconut oils, olive oils etc...
    I do not like the idea of any kind of kibble and I think it's a lazy way to feed dogs regardless of how many you have.
  16. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. CH Dog

    I used to visit many known and unknown dog people, and some of the most successful dog men I came across, believe it or not, were just feeding their dogs dry food.Everyone does it in their own way, that's for sure.
    Sleep likes this.
  17. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Agreed, and I am willing to go one step further, the very best dogs I have ever seen were raised and fed on bag food. Cheap bag food at that. Then switched to a keep feed when the work started.

    When I first started feeding dogs what seems like a hundred years ago we fed Field Trial. $6/50lbs. I had to cut grass in the neighborhood in the summer months to buy the bag of food. It was so cheap. It had feathers. It was nothing more than gravy flavored card board.

    The guy that turned me onto the dogs had a yard of maybe fifty between the bulldogs and hunting dogs. We filled two five gallon buckets about 1/2 full of food, fill with water. Within a short time it was a five gallon bucket of mush.

    Thinking that I have now learned something (which is a slow process) about food and nutrition I am amazed the dogs even survived much less thrived with that as a daily ration.

    We have come a long way in nutrition. I think that is a testament to the dog as well.

    Sometimes I think the way feed the dogs is as much about is as it is about the dog. We are looking for those warm fuzzies.

    Sleep and F.W.K. like this.
  18. siccen

    siccen Big Dog

    A good dog can get by on dog shit and weeds probably. There's a difference between optimized nutrition and a person who is just feeding whatever to a good dog and saying oh this food is just as good because my dog the exact same things as always.
    This is my method etc...
    As an example, Floyd Mayweather got by on Mcdonald's, so to say Mcdonald's is what works for him is wrong. It's just what that extraordinary athlete ate at the time of his great feats.
    I'm sure if there was a thread about what is the worst shit a dog can get by on it would be amazing in it's own right but I think this is a thread about exploring and improving optimized nutrition.
    I have been dedicated to performance, nutrition and fitness not just for dogs but in all aspects of efficiency and put a lot of time and effort into it as I'm sure many do here as well.
    I'm always trying to learn and improve because it's what I enjoy doing.
    slim12 and Sleep like this.
  19. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    I got a relative plays in NFL and he has been posting what he eats in Twitter .No way I could eat that shit every day lol.He eats healthy or not .What ever you like I suppose.
    Sleep likes this.
  20. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    This is very true. there have been dogs who performed very well on a trash diet.

    Looking back I grew up feeding trash but that is what I was taught/that was what was available.

    I have learned a lot since then and do not feed the same way today as I did 30+ years ago.

    The dogs have proven they can perform on just about anything as a food source. And once someone is successful it is a hard go trying to convince them there are better ways. If I win on 'corn flake and cabbage' you can offer me up all kinds of science and nutritional studies that suggest fats and proteins best fit the canine athlete. If I am winning then it will continue to be 'corn flakes and cabbage'.

    It took me a number of years to see the light as I am a little slow. I was raised/taught on the nutritional ideas of the 70's and it worked. The kicker is that the dogs have not evolved to the point as to where that diet could not work in more modern times. It took some trial and error but I am now more in tune with modern times.

    But at the same time I have that personal link to yesteryear so I have seen it work both ways. Wins on trash and wins on optimal.

    That fact I mostly give credit to the dog and then a little of the credit to the guy picking the right dog to make the trash diet look so good. But at the end of the day, it is the dog.



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