Opinions on SBT/APBT

I agree with reids skipper.... the extrem weights ...very small ...very big.... its very hard to get events for them... I think the best dogs come from the average ranges ,,mostly because there is lots of competition for them...

 

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No other dog any breed will beat the best APBT . If best meets best APBT is best .

 

^^^^^^^^here's another one^^^^x-pert...lol...lol...

 

wich year the stb became a official breed ...with a pedigree so it was possible ..to go to big events ..weree also many others breeds like german shepards ....ect ect?
yeary dog show in london for example .....

 

SBT ware recognized by the KC in 1935

 

I am not biased, my favorite breed is SBT , and we all know they came first as from Half & Half's
So we all know the APBT owes is foundation from a dog at-least in size to the SBT. Yet as breeders work on SBT sized dogs and even experimented
with breeds such as BT .
The APBT arose and did dominate all other dogs that would call them selves a dog.

 

As a separate breed...the APBT is a older than the SBT.... the APBT had a registry 30+ years before the KC in England recognized then SBT... they both trace back to the one breed ... but to say APBTs come from SBTs...is wrong....

 

We can agree the butcher and ground terriers were used to create the ultimate dog . Was it a APBT or SBT or nether in a sense , development to the tune of 300 years .
As dogs of England & Ireland came to America
those dogs were small 30 pounds ( if not under) fighting dogs . We know in America there was a increase in size from the dog breeders of America to become the APBT as the solid name out of other names .
Yet england continued with there stock of a dog that looked like the SBT but is not the SBT ( I forgot)

In time England - Eastern Europe even japan start taking in APBT specimens cause they are the best fighting dogs to ever be called a dog .
There was a small overlap of time when england had there working dogs as did USA . Yet the flow of the APBT back to england could not be stopped , they wanted them . because they were the best .
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This is how I see it from all I have researched & i feel it's a glorious past. If you can convince me different lets here it
- ADBA & UKC - KC england represent a discovery of a breed well known for years by the working class man ( give or take) 1600's and onward
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Personally I think we are all on the same page .

 

I don't know what you mean ...makes no sense .. and nothing to do with what I said...?

 

I guess it was a little wordy but it's in there .

To look at pictures of APBT's some look like no other dog to be found
they are perfection . The look is a byproduct true grit .
Fighting dogs came well before any coined named
was put on it.

With all the bad press , BYB , Mutt's from APBT. One thing is clear .
The devoted keepers of the APBT continue the legacy of an amazing breed with a inner hart older then we know .
It's easy to assume that the ancient Greek who had Molosser dogs - to Asia , Rome to England had mixed local dog breedings along the way .
As we are from people of the past so are our dogs.

What a fine job all you pit men have done to keep , enhance and continue the best dog ever - The APBT
I wish the best of luck to you all. Your work will be appreciated for the next thousand years if not more


Origin of the domestic dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Molosser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I don't know about Trusting the information Wikipedia provides. Have problems with them before.

 

Never trust in a site that doesnt end in org or edu lol

 

See I'm not the only one.

 

The SBT is a fine dog & one of the BEST !! .
Consider records of bull baiting go further back then year 1200 . Those bull baiting dogs for sure are
a key in the breeds SBT/APBT
My interpretation - 1800 and finally set 1835 bull baiting was illegal . Since the requirement was a bull for the sport it was not going to be easy to sneak the game .
Wile dog on dog sport was not considered legal - due to " Cruelty to Animals Act of 1835 " dog fighting was probably over looked.
Dog fighting records are shy of information in the years from 1200 on but we can figure some of those people did some Dog to Dog sport .
By 1800's terriers the size of Manchester or that breed were crossed to Bull baiting dogs to produce a dog fighting breed of weight 24 to 38 pounds . These dogs that came of this mix were used in the sport and to me resemble the SBT if not are the SBT.
Dogs being dogs you can figure some matings of bulldogs to other dogs happened from year 1200 on also .

I guess most SBT are show types now, one cannot forget the start ( & some real ones are still around ) .
From description, the dogs that came to America first were Stafford fighting dogs & Irish versions .
Recognition of the year the SBT was officially seen as a breed has nothing to do with the true creation of breed .
It's safe to say in 1935 when the KC took in a dog ,know for fighting and called it the SBT That was the very same dog type USA was enjoying in there breeding programs & successfully improving .
Long live the Staffordshire Bull terrier

Wile I don't know pedigrees these post are off the top of my head , If you meet me in the street I can rattle it off
as fast as needed , Much to the dismay of many a APBT owner I meet out and about. So few know any thing of the past . NOTHING is what they know .

 

Staffordshire bull terriers,,, came from same dogs APBTs came from but they are a different breed now,,, they developed in the breed they are now from show breeders... to say the are the ancestors of APBTs is wrong.... both breed ware developed separately,,,, The SBT is based on the type of fighting dog from the Black Country, the APBTs ware developed from fighting dogs from all parts of the UK and Ireland...

 

A strong example is the Boston terrier , they are far removed from there original stock .
But I feel the SBT represents the type & size they were from the Black Country and London
the SBT is still ready to be real and some still are .

But for sure what has become of the show SBT one can't say APBT are from them.
So yes I see your point that each breed came of a common fighting dog.

But it has been talked about in books, even here, that the original dogs of London , Irish decent - were small dogs
also I have seen with my own eyes staff bull size ( with short leg size) dogs out of real APBT fighting stock

The small ones could be called " SPORTS ".
Can any one tell me do SBT throw off sports equal to the APBT in size , if so that might be the best proof to common original dog type.
A SBT " APBT SPORT " has to have leg length and weight not just some low to the ground heavy dog.
After all APBT have come in at weights 24 27 pounds but have that long leg considered to be the advantage .
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I guess its like what came first the chicken or the egg .

 

One thing i would agree,,common fighting dog breeds,,some well known breeders used white bull terriers in their breeding///??????i think with the vastness of america...that a-lot of lines of fighting dogs were kept to their original ...????why not....the name staffordshire came long after these dogs were all-ready established in most places were immirgrants settled...back in the old countrys they went the show route with these dogs....??????????????

 

Interesting Never thought about it that way

 

I wish we could have in suspended animation some of them , dog men , immigrants , common folk - of the day here now
they would look at all the current types and tell us whats up,
I think they would be impressed over all and see BSL in comparison to there time regulations.
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