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Opinions on SBT/APBT

Discussion in 'Staffordshire Bull Terriers' started by Herodog1, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. Dusty Road

    Dusty Road CH Dog

    I have lots of copies and photo copies of old sporting newspapers... most matches between dogs ware around the 40 lbs mark.. just like now...some ware bigger and some smaller... a lot of the Irish imports into the USA...ware average size.... After 1935...there was no working lines of fighting dogs in uk...only think left was the show SBT... and between not being tested and show conformation standard their ability and gameness was low... in the 1970s some sporting men in UK and Ireland started breeding odd game tested dogs together and produced a few working lines ... there are some about but very few....
     
  2. oldtymer

    oldtymer Top Dog

    These dogs all started at the same family tree,then branched out into three seperate breeds stb's took one branch and most kc specimens today look more like a pug on roids.Another branch was the amstaff and the other branch was the apbt. At least there are still atheletic staffords about and some are kc registered lol. Just think if the kc had gotten their hands on the apbt and it had been bred to their conformation standards only ??? In these modern times there is just no comparison between the stb & the apbt.The apbt comes in all shapes and sizes because it has been bred for the work it does and not a whim of fashion for mans own vanity.
     
  3. ourgalsunday

    ourgalsunday Big Dog

    I took a look at pictures from the NET ,that I believe are late 1800's & england .
    It does appear that a dog that looks more like a APBT then SBT was in service .
    So that ,along with your info is making me rethink my viewpoint. The main truth I see is there were fighting dogs that looked like APBT - - in a English rules dog match during the 1800's
    Also rat baiting dog seems a bit longish in leg showing APBT type before Hinks BT.
    Putting a date & time line to pictures can bring a conclusion
     

    Attached Files:

  4. ourgalsunday

    ourgalsunday Big Dog

    I took a look at pictures from the NET ,that I believe are late 1800's & england .
    It does appear that a dog that looks more like a APBT then SBT was in service .
    So that ,along with your info is making me rethink my viewpoint. The main truth I see is there were fighting dogs that looked like APBT - - in a English rules dog match during the 1800's
    Also rat baiting dog seems a bit longish in leg showing APBT type before Hinks BT.
    Putting a date & time line to pictures can bring a conclusion :tdogwalk2:
     

    Attached Files:

  5. BLUE8BULL

    BLUE8BULL CH Dog

    ..as oldtymer said .//???..but there was at one time differnt sizes in so called staffords ...they also came in diff;sizes/shapes//???/but once a show standard came into being//well just look//????????another thing if people think that hinks was the first to cross a terrier with a bulldog of the time,,,/well come on//??????????????/
     
  6. ourgalsunday

    ourgalsunday Big Dog

    It's easy to get caught up in a time capsule of non reality,the fixed look of the SBT was close to 80 years ago . so fifty to sixty years ago the SBT still might of been game, but by now it can't be what it came from. I believe also scars from fighting made the dog not allowable in the show ring so the KC knew what the plan was
    At this time I see the APBT is from the original stock and game tested throughout generation after generation actual dog years = it's a very old breed.
    Now a reality would be that the APBT with namesake from USA has found it's way into countries that dog fighting is more mellow about . Does Russia have better APBT then USA does japan have better ... and so on.
    I now see what makes the APBT it - is very hard to uphold do to legal laws .
    I see why there is such anger towards BYB and BYB mutts that look like the deal . It's just a great loss .
    I am humble before all that strive to hold tight what once was , messed up breeding is worse then even show breeds .

    who I was in the past is gone, my ignorance , and pig headed lack. I see now
    I have much to relearn & what I learn is not for public talk.
     
  7. ricky posted pictures like those above from the 1700s on another forum( eirepitbulls. com) during the same discussion as this , the drawings show pit dogs exactly the same as todays APBT , as he said then why would you dilute gameness by mixing something thats not as game as the APBT
     
  8. ourgalsunday

    ourgalsunday Big Dog

    I just took a guess at 1800's if it is 1700's - even better - it's clear, the dogs of 1700's are as close to the APBT as you get.
     
  9. dog666

    dog666 Pup

    Yes why would they and then even breed after that ?
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [374232] :: BYRNE'S BUTCH
     
  10. jacko

    jacko CH Dog

    lol. the plot thickens ha ha
     
  11. hammer head

    hammer head Top Dog

    immigrants kept these dogs which they fought, raised and bred for money. The men were working and money was more than enough to drink and gamble. The dogs flourished in these times but when the work dried up so did the sport......

    But America beckoned with fresh hope and new money. Money and drink was flowing in the port cities which swelled with new comers. Gambling took root then came the game dogs and cocks. Dogmen saw huge purses and gate receipts that they could only dream of back home.

    So the old family dogs were brought over to earn their KEEP. These were fought and bred with the local stock. But none but the game were kept too fight frequently and often. As their noterity spread then so did their status as house dogs. Bloodlines and strains were developed and every town had bulldawgs.

    Then can the 20s and the Depression..... game dogs like many other luxuries dried up. Booze and stake money was in short supply as folks searched for bread. Whole yards were culled and only the few had any sought of cur in the house.

    But the ones that were kept were the gamest of all. Tripled dogged belly crawling honest dogs that would bring a tear to the eye of even the wise guy hoods that had the money to gamble. As the bad times rolled into better ones the folks and their dogs were front and center of all the action. Money and booze greased the fastlane. Dogmen and game dogs were back with vengeance.....

    The 60s & 70s in America was unparalleled in the production & pursuit of bulldawgs.

    So folks its money that keeps bulldawgs and their handlers honest. Those were the times before DVD rips & uploads. Now folks have little incentive to keep a honest bulldawg. Just click up a phoney ped with titles and watch the dumb come jumping.

    If your facing your dogs then the TRUTH will be there for all to see.... Thats why we seek the HONEST bulldawg be he pit, bull or terrier.
     
  12. Dusty Road

    Dusty Road CH Dog

  13. david63

    david63 CH Dog

    The pictures I've seen of the SBT back in the 50's and 60's look very different than they do today. I would love to have one from the 50s or 60s. they look like box dogs.
     
  14. dog666

    dog666 Pup

    There's nothing to understand, just gave a reply on what's d story quoted, who said that you said, why would you dilute gameness by mixing something that's not as game as the APBT.
    Just showing that it has been done and after i searched peds online could see it has been done several times before and people still breed to those dogs.
    I couldn't care less as long everybody is happy with what they've got.
    A few other peds i came across of mixed dogs.

    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [307092] :: SOUTHEND'S RUBY

    This 1 suprised me a lot of unknown and even show sbt in it but still made the grade as it seems.
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [446004] :: OXBULL'S REDBULL
    Seems like these folks are happy with what they've got out of it.
     
  15. david63

    david63 CH Dog

    Just look at Rocky lee. can someone post a picture of him. I believe he whipped a couple of pit.
     
  16. Dusty Road

    Dusty Road CH Dog


    He never whipped any pits....
     
  17. david63

    david63 CH Dog

    It must have been rumored then.
     
  18. oldtymer

    oldtymer Top Dog

    Just because it says unknown on peds on line does'nt mean they have no peds !!!
     
  19. dog666

    dog666 Pup

    true but this case it seems to be odd to do so don't you think.
    A Ch dog and they even show the shitty show sbt side but wanting to keep the others unknown, doesn't add up.
    I wouldn't breed to such a dog any how but as long as owners are happy with it, that's the main thing.
    Don't understand this whole sbt/apbt thing.
    There are more working apbt then sbt as it seems but there are also sbt's that can stand there own against the apbt.
    The % are better in apbt but to me it doesn't mean every sbt is a bad dog.
     
  20. oldtymer

    oldtymer Top Dog

    I dont think anything odd in many things in this life.But pedigrees do not make dogs.
     

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