Original Pit Dogs in Ireland?

I know a lot of people like to sling about the term "Irish staff". In reality there's no such thing, they are just KC Staffs that happen to come from Ireland. But, and it's a big but, I'm not naive enough to believe that no Staffs may be still around that are related to the Staffs aka Pit Dogs of Ireland that were used for combat before dogs of these lines were shipped over the pond to help creat the APBT.

Does anyone from Ireland know if this is the case or are all Staffs now descended from KC Staffs?

 

Irish SBTs is bloodline , from dogs bred for sport from the game SBTs used at badger trials , not a different breed just bred for different purpose , kc Staff Bull terriers from Ireland are not the same , they are just show dogs same as show KC SBTs in UK or any where else ,,, as to original Pit dogs in Ireland , as late as mid 1920s they ware still being sent to the USA from Ireland , I was told some that ware still in Ireland at the time ware crossed with the KC recognized SBT when they first came to Ireland , but I could never find any proof of this ,,

 

So, these dogs that were used for the trials and are known as the Irish Staff are not at all related to KC show dogs? If not then surely they are down off the original Pit Dogs that were later used for the Badger trials?

 

I'm pretty sure all the badger trial dogs were down from kc stock,but kc stock in those days were a far cry from today's kc dogs.
Alot closer bred to the old school working dogs.

 

That's what my thinking was? Yeah, it doesn't mean much, it's only a piece of paper and a recognition at the end of the day, it doesn't mean that the dogs never saw work, wether that is in the box or in the field.

 

I didn't say they

ware not related , they are just not bred for show or looks and ware bred for gameness , there are only a hand full of bloodline that go under the name Irish Staff ,, and if they dont have these peds they are not strains of Irish staffs

 

not sure why part of the last post went missing , I had said they are Staff bull terrier but bred for generations for gameness and the kc show Staff are no longer related

 

So, how are they Staff's then and not just known as Irish Bull Terriers if they have no relation to the KC dogs? Am I right in thinking the name came about from fanciers in Staffordshire?

What you're saying tells me that these dogs that were used in the trails are the original game dogs used in Ireland for the pit and the field.

 

When I say came from Staffordshire, I mean the name Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

 

If these dogs from working strains in Ireland that were used in the pit and in the Badger trails aren't of show stock that are from show stock then why did the name Staff stick?

 

Ignore that last post I've had one too many lol.

 

I could be wrong but the word irish staff , dublin red all originated I think at the earliest late 80's thats when I saw em popping up
some of them were crosses I recall and pretty soon after the pitbull arrived they were crossed as well
I remember the name dublin red originated as per tony lee cause people kept asking for one of them red dogs from dublin

 

But, if these dogs were the actual original Pit Dogs of Ireland why did the Staffordshire name stick? I very much doubt the Irish got all their working stock from Staffordshire? Is it possible that these dogs involved in the Badger Trials had show dog blood in there?

 

where did someone say they ware not SBTs ? I said I could find no proof there was a mix between SBTs imported from UK and the pit dogs that ware originally here , there was a 20 year gap between last known Irish dogs imported to USA and the first SBT imported to Ireland from the UK ,

 

How could they be SBT's though as these were called that because of their show status?

I think we are getting our wires crossed.

Ireland had put dogs well before the creation of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier in the mid 30's, but, as far as I know, all the dogs of Ireland were eventually labelled as Staffs. Why would those that were untouched by the show dogs of the 30's get that moniker?

 

why ask when you know all the answers , how do you not get what I said , they all came from imported kc show staffs c 1940 , I could not find any connection to Irish pit bull terriers that ware still in Ireland 20 years before the kc show SBT came to Ireland , Irish staffs , are just working strains bred for gameness from dogs that trace back to the early kc show staffs , the only way to say your dog is an Irish SBT is by having one from the working strains

 

You said in your first post that they are not the same as KC Staffs.

 

If you mean they are not used for show, that is obvious, but they were down off original KC dogs that still had the ability to work in the box and in the field.

 

There is a ton of info about these dogs in the Staffordshire Bull Terrier section on this board if I not mistaken.

 

Yep, but the history is always murky like with any other breed.

My question was wether there's dogs today in circles that are untouched by the show stock Staff and the APBT that came later, I very much doubt it and if there was I imagine the gene pool would be too small.

I haven't seen any articles on the history of the old Irish dogs, it would be interesting to learn where in England they got the majority of their stock from.