Original Pit Dogs in Ireland?

Every one has their own opinion , but terrier influence if any is tiny .. bulldogs ware it was legal to bait bulls , bears and have dog fight ware almost identical to a modern APBT , below 3 prints at the time these dogs ware Bulldog , this before dog show and the development of the British Show Bulldog

 

Maybe it one point some pit dog strains had very little if any terrier influence but, in certain individuals IMO you can see a strong look of terrier, not just in Staffs but also APBT's.

 

of course,coming back to the original irish dogs,after kc recognition ,red nose,chocalate ,dudley or whatever you want to call them,were culled,because it was an undesirable trait.

 

Also when they brought the height down,they left the weights alone.Now alot of these show dogs are nearer 50pounds than 38.

 

I find it hard to accept that men gave up on these pit dogs of old, why would you turn your back on all that history for a new fad, the KC Staff? It would be interesting to know where in England the Irish dog men got most of their dogs, possibly the Midlands, but, you'd expect a lot of blood from the North West.

 

I'm talking about the pit dogs before the introduction of the Staff here.

 

The Blue Paul some say Scottish other says from Irish background. Populair fighting dog around 1830. British settlers brought dogs with them to America from the 1600's.

 

1898

 

A stunning looking Pit Dog, one of the ancestors of the APBT, not to be confused with the EBT that was created by Hinks.
I do wonder how many of these type were left in England and how they became obsolete when the show dogs became popular.

 

Money simple as that,not just in uk ,and eire, look at all the famous american dog men who dual registered their dogs.Look at all the famous lakeland breeders in the north of england,who kept dogs for showing and dogs for working Eg Middleton and cowan etc.in the end their dogs came to be more associated,with the show ring.Like Tacoma,storkland,xpert etc in US.Even Corvino dual registered,at least i think he did.You think men like carver,would be above doing it? From everything ive heard,and read the man would sell his granny to make a buck.

 

There's men out there that won't be swayed by the coin no matter how tempting it is, maybe, there just wasn't all that many pit dogs in England & Ireland in the first place and were engulfed by the rise in show dogs. It didn't really change much in the long run, the APBT made it's way back here in the 70's, 80's and 90's so we can call them loan dogs to the Yanks, they didn't do anything different, they just preserved the type, slacker laws and a wider gene pool helped matters, but, all working dogs evolve, if the dogs had stayed over here the modern dogs would have been better than dogs of the past, that's what breding is all about.

 

Can you show the evidence ?

 

There's literally dozens of pics of APBT's that have a strong terrier look, plus all the old articles talking about the bull & terrier crosses, half & half's, etc. Plus, the name, there's usually no smoke without fire.

 

A racy APBT l is just that a racy APBT,, big APBT with heavy build , don't mean its mastiff genes , majority of early pit bulls and prints of original Bulldogs look almost identical , if you like post a photo of a APBT with its ped and point out where the terrier is

early 1800s Bulldog , 1900s APBT modern APBT ,, if there was any terrier in APBT its a tiny % and has no bearing n any APBT today

 

I don't believe it's anything like half and half, like you say, it's probably not all that substantial, as we know, some dogs look really like the Bulldog type and others not so much. No breed in tbe world is really pure, for me it doesn't really matter what's in them, it's nice to learn about and understand the history but the dogs are want they are no matter their makeup.

I don't go along with the narrative that terrier was added to give agility and speed, a catch dog like the Bulldog would have had to be agile and quick to carry out it's tasks, if not you'd have a dead dog. I just think men crossed good fighters with good fighters at the end of the day. Plus, I don't think gameness was a unique quality that the Bulldog possessed.

 

the show bulldog was given the name Bulldog , the white Bull terrier is the genuine Bull terrier and it was done to try save the show breed called White English terriers who have some genetic problems , I agree no dog is 100% pure , some APBT have a tiny tiny % of Bull terrier in them , like the Henry dogs , but if you think any dog in past 100 years had a terrier added your mistaken

 

When I refer the bulldog I'm talking about the original working bulldog, not the offshoot that became the show bulldog. When you look at some old photos of the American Bulldogs in the deep south they look proper throwbacks to the original bulldog.

 

the American Bulldog is huge , not far off size of a mastiff , nothing like the original Bulldog People go on about Southern whites , Iv not once seen any mention of them pre 1960s when the American Pit bulldog was invented , later known as the American Bulldog , not one article , or mention of them , the sporting bulldog used in all types of bloodsports , ware almost identical to the APBT in conformation and size , below are prints of Bulldogs ,