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Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by KSL, Dec 11, 2021.

  1. KSL

    KSL Pup

    What woud\shoud you pay for a proven dog?
  2. Sleep

    Sleep Big Dog

    It depends on ya pocket and how bad u want it and if the owner wants to sell it....I personally say a good proven dog is priceless...so money isn't the issue it's your desire to get it that's the Main Factor
    david63, KSL and 80BOWTIE like this.
  3. KSL

    KSL Pup

    I understand that, an

    I agree, but everbody needs mony too live. Dident Tom Garner buy proven dogs to start his stock
    Sleep likes this.
  4. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    Don't worry about what other folks do. Most of what you know is bullshit anyway. They just some damn dogs.
  5. Sleep

    Sleep Big Dog

    Do what u want don't worry about what others think...most ppl criticism is there opinion..only person you have to prove to is yourself...that's my 2 cents ...take it or leave it...best of luck
    KSL likes this.
  6. David Hunt

    David Hunt A thousand mile Journey begins with one step.

    I sold a few adults over the years. I've given away way more. I sold a pure Colby bitch Molly to Pete Colby Sr for 2500.00 I plus shipping. He came and picked her up personally. I sold my boy Redjohn to American Rebel kennels in Montana for 350I0. plus shipping. I regret that selling both in all honesty. Pete got in a mess and Molly was sold to Amp http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=632813
    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=488346 However we live and learn...
    david63, Sleep and KSL like this.
  7. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I'm cheap so my opinion carries little weight. Fortunately and unfortunately, at the same time money does not make me jump nor does it indicate actual value.

    I was in a financial bind. I sold the best male I ever owned for $1500 coming off the collection of a forfeit of $750. I slid his crate into passenger side backseat of the new owner's car. He gave me $1500 for the dog, $300 for a delivery and hour away, a $100 for a ragged ass crate and then dropped another hundred as he was in a hurry.

    He was in a hurry because when I pulled off they slid that crate out of driver's side of that car and paid $4500 dollars for him. They took him home and put him on several dogs they were real high on and he made then three or four chain spaces in two separate weekends.

    They put him out there the 1st time for $30K.

    Same dog. Different people. The amounts change based on the people involved so there is no "right" answer.

    Have I continually kicked myself in the ass for years for selling that dog? Absolutely...hell yeah!.

    Would I give the $4500 to get him back? Absolutely not....hell no!.

    Is $4500 a fair price for a dog someone is willing to leave home with $30K?

    See, no right answer.

    If you pay a guy for a dog and leave with him and you have the warm fuzzies as you drive away that is all you can ask for. If you still have the warm fuzzies years later that is like winning the lottery.

  8. che

    che Top Dog

    To be honest, some off the best dogs i ever
  9. che

    che Top Dog

    To be honest some off the best dogs i ever had were gift or buyed for not much money but the crazy thing is i made a lot off costs on them and finally when i decided to sell one off them, the price was not even the half amount money off i paid for. If i wanted to have more money for my dog i could get it 100%, but if we are talking about my dogs its never about money and it is my call i do it or not. I decide the price and thats a good pair hands. Thats enough for me
    KSL and david63 like this.
  10. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I paid $2850 with shipping plus 2 pups off that dogs first breeding I did with him. That was for a 2xw 5 year old dog from a very legit camp about 10 years ago. That's the most I've ever paid for a dog. I'm pretty cheap too. I could have also bought that dogs half brother who was a legit 5xw for 8k. Shit, money don't grow on trees around here. I'd rather make my own dogs. It can be just as expensive but the rewards are far greater to me. I've had dogs given to me for free that turned out to be just as good though. Dogs are worth what someone is willing to pay for them point blank and period. Everyone wants that deal yet very few really know what's actually involved time and money wise to:

    #1. Breed/care/raise from birth to sale multiple dogs and litters. It's very time draining and financially consuming with minimal rewards financially, those that do it right tend to put that reward right back into their dogs so there is very little profit at all to them. It's more of a passion than a profit venture otherwise they'd just switch to Bullies. What's that person's time worth that they can't get back? To you probably nothing but I'd bet they feel differently about it more times than not. To them that increases value as they are sacrificing their time for something you wish to simply purchase.

    #2. To take a dog from a pup or prospect age and make him something known very few are willing to do anymore. That's that time, money and now possible freedom someones sacrificing coming into play. What's that equal in value? Again, to you probably nothing. To the person in the mud, I'm willing to bet they feel differently about that as well than the buyer does. It's all perspective and what your willing to pay for what you want. 5k to me can change my life dramatically currently but it might not be squat shit to you but walking around coin.

    At the end of the day, they are worth what your willing to sacrifice or give up to get it......
    Sleep, chili, slim12 and 2 others like this.
  11. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Well said.
    I agree the dog is only worth what someone is willing to pay.
    Profitability is debatable and maybe even subjective.
    If you factor in money spent and money returned when a litter is sold for $500 it is highly profitable or people would not do it.
    If you factor in the ramifications of what could go south then $5000 per puppy is not profitable if it indeed goes south, at least not to me.

    At one of the TG gatherings I saw a guy come from behind the wall with two puppies. Even if it were a fire sale he dropped $2500 maybe even $3000. He set the puppies in an older Ford truck. He added 2 quarts of oil and at least a gallon of water. He had either Alabama or Arkansas plates. This guy seemed happy as all get out so whatever the price was it was worth it to him.

    I paid $300 for the Cornbread dog mentioned above and sold him for $1500. Basic math says that is profitable. Factor in the chances I took riding up and down the road then not so much.

    Great topic. Always enjoy them.

    KSL and AGK like this.
  12. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I agree it's a good debatable topic with a lot of factors involved. The how much somethings worth debate has always intrigued me. Because you'll have different points of view on it depending on if your looking at it from the seller or the buyers POV.

    How much did you spend feeding that cornbread dog the entire time you owned him though? Any shots? Regular worming? That alone just ate your 1200 buck profit if you owned the dog longer than 1 year. We haven't even factored in your time in this equation.

    Now your actually backwards on the dog. That was the point I was trying to make with my post. Seems like you made a profit however you really didn't since it costs money to maintain a dog and any profit was actually already spent before the sale was even conducted. You lucky to even brake even most times. That's just how it's always been for me personally. I'm not very motivated by profit in the dogs. Lmao maybe I should be. I've always felt though once money becomes my main objective, quality will surely go downhill because my motives will change therefore so will my selection process of what gets bred. I'm sure there's a lot of other opinions out there. That's just my own though.

    I suppose if I bought a dog for 300 and immediately sold it for 1500 then yes that's a definite profit. I got nothing invested into the dog at that point. I also don't feel most breeders are like or even comparable to Garner lol. That's farming not breeding. Be like comparing a hobbyist to a major hi dollar machine of a business. The Pennsylvania Dutch don't put out the kind of numbers he does with their puppy mills. Lol.

    I don't know a whole lot of people who make real bank breeding and selling dogs and I feel like I know a few folks. They make money but they spend a lot too and give alot in time. The real money is and always has been in the box IMO not the breeding pen. I'm sure there are exceptions to all of this. Wouldn't say it's the norm in the world of breeding and selling dogs though. Most I've witnessed in my few years in the dogs that got into breeding dogs for profit fizzled out just as fast as they came into them once they realized the money is not worth what it takes do deal with a breeding program on the daily. Litters are a lot of work. Lol. At least 8 weeks of it bare minimum.
    che, slim12 and KSL like this.
  13. San Siro

    San Siro Big Dog

    I think here in Europe/Balkans you pay average 1000 euro for each W.
    Dont forget the time and money is spent on that dog to get that W.

    A litter from proven dogs are from 200 euro to 1200 euro for a pup.
    KSL likes this.
  14. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    “Proven” dog at the end of one handler’s leash might not be so proven at the end of another handler's leash. Too many sorry clowns out there with otherwise well bred dogs that couldn’t care for a goldfish let alone a high performance k9.

    I have a (non bulldog) working line import which was given to me free from the original owner - who invested heavily in him yet could not handle him. After much work, bonding and a few come to the Lord moments, he’s now the best dog I ever had maybe ever will. I off loaded an extra plinker in an even trade for another fantastic working/sport dog. Both produced decent pups which sold well and helped pay some of the feed and care bills. In the end, I make no $. I lose $, but not important as it's a hobby.

    Point is, there is no point - just endless opinions and anecdotes. Only you can decide what your threshold is.
    KSL, che and slim12 like this.
  15. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    No doubts. That was the subjective part I was talking about. What counts as an investment and how do you cover your time?

    I have a 1972 K5 Blazer. I paid $5K for it and basically stole it considering its age, its condition and the current market. I have been offered $16K cash for it on two different occasions. This would be a profitable sale for me.

    I also have a 1969 4WD Chevrolet truck that I did a frame off resto-mod restoration. I can add up parts and labor and put a dollar amount on it. But if I add the nights and weekends I have invested I will never get half my money back.

    Transfer that to the dogs...tagging your comment about the difference between the buyer and seller.....the buyer never factors your time, sort of like that is your choice.

    I sold a litter of Fila Brasileiros once, all 7 for $1500 a pop. I had planned to keep two, maybe three, but they sold so fast I let them ride. I used the money to buy an imported dog from South America. Normally I don't spend that kind of money on a dog but after selling the puppies I was playing with house money. As time passed I should have kept three of the dogs and had three chances at having a good dog. I shot a fruitless wad on the import dog.

    Had the same debate with a lady who was selling Filas for $2500 and up, and getting it on every litter. She said she did not know how I could afford to sell puppies for $1500. I told her I did not drive up on a $65,000 truck pulling a $30,000 camper with built in dog quarters in the back. I was on a '85 Chevrolet K5 Blazer with a salvage title from a flood with a $100 dog box I built myself.

    Two totally different approaches.

    What makes bulldogs different than most any other breed is that there is a very viable way to say this was or was not worth what I spent. But from there it will roll into I paid $$$$ and they produced this and that which turns into a whole 'nother can of worms.

    KSL, AGK and che like this.
  16. che

    che Top Dog

    One week ago a person i know well , buyed a very wel bred pup, from one off the most proven good working familly over here just for 150 euro. Breeder just wanted two have some kibble for his dogs . He is not a money chaser. H
    Very well said. I agreed. Its depend on many factors and how you handle with them. The truth has to be told.
    KSL likes this.
  17. che

    che Top Dog

    @slim12 @GK1 @AGK

    I was reading this and started to think immediately about this topic off day

    Lets read together and smile

    CUSTOMER: "How much will it cost to do this job?"
    CONTRACTOR: "$2,800 Dollars."

    CUSTOMER: "That's WAY too expensive for this job!!"
    CONTRACTOR: "How much do YOU think it would cost?"

    CUSTOMER: "No more than $800 Dollars - MAX!! It's a simple job!"
    CONTRACTOR: "I can't prioritize my time for so little."

    CUSTOMER: "People in your line of work are so greedy."
    CONTRACTOR: "Sorry you feel that way. Why not do it yourself?"

    CUSTOMER: "But... but... I don't know how to do any of this."
    CONTRACTOR: "For $900 Dollars, I'll teach you EXACTLY how to get this job done. Then you can spend $800 to do the job and you'll still be saving $1,100 Dollars - PLUS... you'll get the knowledge and experience for the next time you want to do a job yourself."

    CUSTOMER: "Deal!! Let's do it."
    CONTRACTOR: To get started you'll need tools. So you'll have to buy a welder, a grinder, a chop saw, a drill press, a welding hood, gloves and a few other things."

    CUSTOMER: "But I don't have all this equipment and I can't buy all of these for one job."
    CONTRACTOR: "Well then for another $300 more I'll let you rent my tools... and you'll still be saving $800 Dollars."

    CUSTOMER: "That's cutting into my savings. But I'll rent your tools."
    CONTRACTOR: "Okay! I'll be back on Saturday and we can start."

    CUSTOMER: "Wait. I can't on Saturday. I only have time today."
    CONTRACTOR: "Sorry, I only give lessons on Saturday, because I have to prioritize my time and my tools have to be at other jobs with other customers all week long.

    CUSTOMER: "Okay!! I'll sacrifice my family plans on Saturday."
    CONTRACTOR: "Yeah... me too. Oh... and I forgot... to do your job yourself, you also have to pay for the materials. Everything is in high demand right now, so your best bet is to get your truck and load up at 6AM before everyone else gets there."

    CUSTOMER: "SIX AM??? On a Saturday??? That's way to early for me. And also... I don't have a truck."
    "CONTRACTOR: "I guess you'll have to rent one. Do you have a couple of strong men to help you load and unload everything?"

    CUSTOMER: "Ummm... ya know... I've been thinking. It's probably best if YOU get this job done. I'd rather pay someone to get it done correctly than go through all the hassle.
    CONTRACTOR: "Smart move, sign this and please get out of the way so I can work."


    When you pay for a job, especially handcrafted, you pay not only for the material used, but you are also paying for:

    - Knowledge
    - Experience
    - Tools
    - Services
    - Time
    - Punctuality
    - Accountability
    - Professionalism
    - Accuracy
    - Labor
    - Sacrifices
    - Safety and Security
    - Payment of tax obligations

    No one should denigrate a professional's work by judging prices - ESPECIALLY when they don't know all the elements or costs necessary for the production of such work.

    You can't haggle over a service that you don't actually have the skills or knowledge to do yourself. You can't get a high quality gourmet dinner party for the same price as a Happy Meal from McDonald's. And you can't be mad when skilled people actually KNOW their own worth.
    kiwidogman, KSL, chili and 1 other person like this.
  18. Pullingcovers

    Pullingcovers Top Dog

    Buying a dog is playing slot machines ! Just because you raise the bet doesn’t mean your going to win!
    KSL, che and AGK like this.
  19. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    In 2021 not a damn person should complain about the price of these dogs. You got other breeds selling for 10k pups.
  20. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    That's actually very in line with how I think for the most part BB.

    Shit, I know people who sell Bullies for 5k a pup. Even the rankest cur apbt will spank the shit out of one of them dogs on it's worst day and the other dogs best day. Out perform them in every way possible yet people still don't think a APBT should be worth more than 500 a pup lmfao.

    All you got to do really is open up any classified section of any local newspaper and see how much a mutt ass cocker doodle will costs or even better yet, go see how much a pet store charges for a mill bred pup of any breed. Most hold these dogs up so high until it's time to pay for one then they ain't worth shit. :))

    A Working man's price in 1992 isn't what a working mans price is in 2021. Every single commodity on the plant has sky rocked in price except the APBT lol. Pomapoos sell for way more.
    treezpitz and KSL like this.

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