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Southern Kennels

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by Big Game Bulldogs, Nov 5, 2021.


Does Southern Kennels have a history of producing high quality game dogs?

  1. Yes

    16 vote(s)
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
  1. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    BTW...Sambo is kicking he shit out of BJJ nowadays.
  2. Pollo

    Pollo Big Dog

    Unless your name is Mikey Musumeci
  3. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    Modern BJJ has absolutely no takedowns and is useless against someone who can strike and wrestle. 99% of grappling matches today start with butt scooting.
  4. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

  5. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    trying to post a link of a boy with some takedowns
  6. Pollo

    Pollo Big Dog

    Agreed … early in the 2000’s I remember Sambo always referred to as being heavy in leg locks. Its interesting to see how the top echelon bjj practitioners now use low limb submission as a go to.

    I remember how it was frowned upon rolling no-GI lol
    david63 likes this.
  7. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    Leg locks are bad for business because you get hurt before you have a chance to tap. A lot of Gracie schools don't allow them (but Renzo, who I trained with did...Renzo allowed everything). Also, I don't like leg locks because they cause you to give up position, I would rather stay on top in a real fight. The Japanese also like leg locks.

    It is not just the leg locks. I am a wrestler and BJJ guy but here is the truth: The Sambo top game is and will contuinue to beat the BJJ guard. Charles Olivera is widely regarded as having the best guard in MMA and Islam went through it like a hot knife through butter. Khabib fucked up the best BJJ guys. If you know grappling, just watch how technical the Sambo guard pass is, for example the way they slide the knee through the guard and secure knee on belly or full mount. And they are world class wrestlers.

    I will tell you another thing: BJJ training simply is not that tough. It is great for your average accountant or lawyer who wants to learn self defense, but wrestling (and Sambo....and especially the guys in Dagestan, they are savages) is much, much tougher. A lot of BJJ guys get punched in the face and that's it, they don't like it and quit MMA. Wrestling is so tough getting punched in the face is just another day of training. That is why they dominate MMA (plus they dictate where the fight goes). Khabib said "if Sambo/wrestling was easy it would be BJJ".

    Speaking of Dagestanis, they are animals. That part of the world produces more Olympic wrestling champions than anywhere else. They fight everyday, just for lunch money. People here are soft in comparison (although we do have some great wrestlers). And they are just stronger than other humans. You run your mouth there and you will fight.

    You are going to see Sambo guys dominate the UFC.
  8. Ssdd

    Ssdd CH Dog

    I haven't followed either sport in quite some time... that being said I've caught a couple shorts of a giant tatted up white guy who is destroying everything in front of him(bjj). I've liked catching his matches as they pop up on my feed. I like the big guys because it's more impressive(to me) to see these juice heads rely on technique knowing they can break necks off power. They also move WAY slower so you can catch their little tricks better on video..
  9. Pollo

    Pollo Big Dog

    probably talking about Gordon Ryan. That dude is different
    Ssdd likes this.
  10. Pollo

    Pollo Big Dog

    leg locks are only dangerous if your rolling with inexperienced guys or you have to much pride to tap when you know something is on.
    Heel hooks being standard or inverted is something you tap to regardless when rolling.

    most places I’ve been you had to have certain level of experience to go for those types of submissions simply because it’s whole other level of technique that takes a long time to learn after you’ve developed a solid base.

    when I went to Din Thomas’s ATT school in Port St. Lucie right after he left the main academy everything was fair game. That was 04-05.

    rodrigo vaghi ( team vaghi ) allowed all attacks purple belt on up. I’m sure your not familiar with Rodrigo Vaghi but he was at the time the only non Gracie family member that instructed at the main academy in Brazil. He’s a 5th degree black belt now. Also at the time he was 1 of 6 black belts that took direct technique from Rickson.

    Anyways Rodrigo knew the future was mma so is instruction was heavily rooted in getting off your back. Fighting off your back is dead unless you do sport jits and even then top athletes attack leg locks.
    Any joint lock has potential to hurt and any submission there’s potential to lose position.

    I don’t necessarily think the future is strictly sambo or any one style. It’s the new generation of freak kids that have been doing mma specific fight training since a young age.
  11. Pollo

    Pollo Big Dog

    You remember those pictures I showed you of me helping run a seminar with randy couture? Fuck that was a long time ago. He was still fighting for belts back then. That was a man that you felt the 35 years grappling strength when he touched you. You just knew he’d big brother the shit out of a guy.
  12. Pollo

    Pollo Big Dog

    Another guy that was a very rough roll was prime Matt Hughs. His top game was suffocating.
    I remember when George buzz sawed him. Lots and lots of people just couldn’t wrap they’re head around it.
    I remember Matt saying I don’t think I can beat that guy. That was something for him to say that because Matt was one of the biggest cocksucking, arrogant, pricks I was ever around.
  13. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Just so we're all clear here, Google isn't doing accurate research on topics so I wouldn't quote Google as a reference source. Just because Google said it's so don't make it truth.

  14. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    The ADBA breed standard. (Per the ADBA)
    This is for beauty pageants not the square.
    However a breeds standard is typically derived from the working animal. Form follows function....

    I bold printed section A for a reason......

    Due to the improper use of the American Dog Breeders Association Inc. Heritage American Pit Bull Terrier Conformation Standard® being used as a breed identifier in proposed laws and ordinances, a breed standard use clause will now be part of our ADBA Heritage American Pit Bull Terrier Conformation Standard® The ADBA APBT Heritage Conformation Standard® now includes an ideal conditioned show weight to be between 30 and 75 pounds.

    I. Introduction

    A. To truly understand any breed standard, one must know the history behind a breed’s existence.

    B. The purpose of a judge is the unbiased selection of quality breeding stock with true breed type.

    C. The responsibility of judging is to put up the dogs that conform most to the conformation standard leaving personal bias aside.

    II. Overall Appearance 20 points

    A. Conforming to breed type

    1. Should look like an American Pit Bull Terrier from across the ring

    2. Sturdy, three dimensional. Giving the impression of strength, not slight or frail.

    3. Appears square, with heavy boned, solid front end with a light and springy back end.

    4. Should look athletic, not bulky. Musculature should be smooth but defined.

    5. Presentation of an adult dog should be of a lean, exercised animal, showing a hint of rib and backbone (without hipbones showing) with muscles firm and defined. Clean, glossy coat with short trimmed nails. Presentation of dogs in the puppy classes should be of a well nourished puppy, showing no ribs, backbone or hips. Coat should be glossy with short, trimmed nails.

    B. Balance

    1. Balanced angulation of front and rear assembly – judged best at the trot.

    2. Height to weight ratio – the tallest dog at a given weight

    3. Head size in proportion to the body, with a neck long enough to have 2/3rds of the head appear above the topline of the back when head is in a normal upright position.

    C. Presentation

    1. Dog is socialized, showing interest in things around him.

    2. Although some degree of dog/animal aggressiveness is characteristic of the breed, unruly behavior will detract from the judges ability to accurately judge an individual dog’s conformation.

    D. Health

    1. The vitality of the dog’s spirit, the gloss of the dogs coat and the sharpness of the dog’s eye, will exude the healthfulness of the individual animal.

    2. Colors or color patterns known to be genetically linked to health problems will be considered a serious fault. Major faults: merle color pattern, albinism (white dog with blue or pink eyes, pink nose, lips, no pigment present on pads, rims of eyes etc.)

    III. Attitude 10 points

    A. Confident and alert

    B. Interested in things around them, in control of their space, not threatened by anything in their surroundings.

    C. Gentle with loved ones. Major Fault: shy or timid.

    IV. Back end 30 points

    A. Loin

    1. Broad and long enough to square the dog. Too short can interfere with a dogs flexibility. Too long a loin causes the dog to carry excessive weight and affect a dog’s agility and quickness.

    B. Hip

    1. Long and sloping with adequate width. This can be judged by the set of the tail, which should be low.

    2. Ideal slope of hip should be 30 degrees to the ground.

    C. Proportions of the back leg.

    1. The femur should be of a length so that the stifle joint is proportioned in the upper 1/3 of the rear assembly.

    2. The tibia-fibula is the longer bone of the rear assembly

    3. The length of the metatarsal is moderate, with muscles that attach equally on each side of the bone so that the hocks move parallel to each other, deviating neither in nor out. The metatarsals bones, hock and lower part of the tibia will be light, fine and springy.

    4. Rear angulation – ratio between the lengths of the bones and the muscles which attach on these bones, causes a bent stifle which leads to a well bent hock. This contributes to the natural springiness that is desired in the rear assembly.

    5. The muscle attachment is long and deep, well past the joint ideal for leveraged power, which causes the muscles to appear smooth, but defined. (Not bunchy). Faults: short or flat hip, straight stifle, double jointed or slipped hock, cow hocked, bunchy muscles.

    V. Front end 20 points

    A. Ribcage

    1. Deep and elliptical with a prominent breastbone or prosternum. From the side, the bottom of the ribcage should at least be even with the elbow joint.

    2. Well sprung at the top, tapering to the bottom, extending well back into the loin.

    B. Shoulders

    1. Wider than the ribcage at the 8th rib. Scapula well laid back, 45 degree or less angle to the ground, and broad and flat allowing for adequate muscular attachment for a heavy and sturdy front end.

    2. The humerus is angled at an opposite 45 degree angle and is long enough that the elbow comes to the bottom of the ribcage, elbows lying flat against the body.

    3. Forearms are slightly longer than the humerus and solid, twice the thickness of the metatarsal at the hock.

    C. Feet

    1. Small and tight, set high on pasterns.

    2. Pads thick, and well built up.

    3. Dew claws are natural on front feet, and do not naturally occur on back legs. Faults: barrel chest, narrow chest, fine bones, out at elbows, down in pasterns, splay feet, thin pads, back dew claws.

    VI. Head and Neck 15 points

    A. Neck

    1. Heavily muscled to the base of the skull

    2. Long in length B. Head 1. Head size balanced in relationship to the rest of the body. 2. 2/3 the width of the shoulders.

    3. Wedge shaped when viewed from the top or side, round when viewed from the front.

    4. Cheeks 25% wider than the neck at the base of the skull.

    5. The length from the nose to the stop should equal the length from the stop to the back of the head.

    6. The bridge of the muzzle is well developed. The fill in under the eyes should be wider than the head at the base of the ears for structural support of the upper canines.

    7. The head should be deep from the top of the head to the bottom of the jaw.

    8. Straight box like muzzle

    9. Lips tight

    10. Teeth, incisors should meet in the front in a scissor bite. Canines should be wide at the base and taper to the end, top canines fitting tightly together behind the bottom canines. They should be sound and healthy with none missing.

    11. Eyes, small and deep set. Elliptical when viewed from the front, triangular when viewed from the side.

    12. Ears- no preference should be given to cropped or uncropped ears, except to enhance the overall attractiveness of the individual dog. Faults: short neck, cheeky, underdeveloped muzzle, lippy, missing canines, overshot or undershot to the extent that the canines do not fit tightly together.

    VII. Tail and Coat 5 points

    A. Coat

    1. Skin thick and loose around neck and chest, tight fitting elsewhere, showing vertical folds around the neck and chest even in a well exercised animal.

    2. Short and bristled, the gloss showing overall health of the animal.

    3. Color or any combination of colors, except for colors or color patterns known to be genetically linked to health problems.

    B. Tail

    1. Thick at the base, tapering to the point. Its length should have the tail extending to the point of the hock.

    2. Hang down like a pump handle when relaxed.

    Major faults: Merle color pattern or albinism. (White dog, blue or pink eyes, lacks pigment)

    Faults: Longer coat, fringed hair on tail or elsewhere, bobbed tail or any tail other than straight.

    Disqualifications: Man aggression, one sided or both sided cryptorchid, spayed or neutered dogs

    The ADBA APBT Heritage Conformation Standard® now includes an ideal conditioned show weight to be between 30 and 75 pounds. Above all, the American Pit Bull Terrier should appear to be an all around athlete. His body is called upon for speed, power, agility and stamina. He must be balanced in all directions. Too much of one thing, robs him of another. In his ideal form, he is a thing of beauty.


    The American Dog Breeders Association Inc. Heritage Basis of Conformation Standard for the American Pit Bull Terrier® as copyrighted works is protected by the Berne Convention. The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works is composed of 145 member nations of which the United States is one. The Berne Convention calls for national treatment of copyrights. Under the agreement, each member country agrees to give the same protection to copyright holders from other nations as it does its own citizens. Any unauthorized or improper use of the American Dog Breeders Association Inc. Heritage Conformation Standard for the American Pit Bull Terrier® is strictly prohibited.


    This breed standard is not a breed identifier. It may only be used to judge the standards of quality of the American Pit Bull Terrier, as set forth. It’s purpose is for use by American Dog Breeders Association Inc. breeders, or American Dog Breeders Association Inc. sanctioned judges, in determining the quality of each animal being judged at an American Dog Breeders Association Inc. sanctioned show, or event and for awarding ADBSI points based upon individual quality as reflected by the breed standard of excellence. It may also be used to evaluate the quality of breeding stock by breeders of ADBA registered American Pit Bull Terriers for selecting breeding stock, and for evaluating the quality of individual puppies from ADBA registered American Pit Bull Terrier litters.

    Download: Conformation Standard PDF

    Next Post
    Ralph Greenwood Memorial ‘Invitational’ Conformation Show – *Updated Qualifications
    Ralph Greenwood Memorial ‘Invitational’ Conformation Show – *Updated Qualifications
    GrChHaunch and Revelator like this.
  15. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I will try to give an example of why the STANDARD is written and the words that are chosen and the ideas they imply.

    California Jack put out the Pit Bull Bible. He is an ass but the book is awesome. I would suggest it to anyone who owns a dog and especially if you own several dogs....regardless of breed. The book is chock full of very useful information.

    With that said, if he had changed the title it would have sold way more copies than it did. The title "PIT BULL BIBLE" alienated tons of people because all things PIT BULL are bad. PIT BULL get credit for all the maulings and they have locking jaws with a mouth that can rupture steel pipe and they use that mouth on the faces of children. Jack targeted the pit bull audience but alienated tons of people who could find that information very useful.

    So the opposite rings true as well. When the STANDARD was written do you think anyone in their right mind would list an occasion where a dog can bite his owner and be called 'a good one'? Absolutely not. So as the STANDARD was being written that way he had previously noted the times when Jimmy Boots was so geeked up he would spin and nip to get his release. What if he said the dog must take hold and stay in hold to prevent being counted out. How far does the STANDARD get with the ADBA?

    You seem to want a game dog so what if the STANDARD said, "You will face your dog in the corner until instructed to face your dog forward. Your dog has ten seconds to cross the box and take hold of the other animal".

    That is what you want but I have never read any STANDARD that suggests a pit bull dog must scratch to be typical/within the STANDARD.

    The STANDARD is the very reason one can't look at these dogs with nostalgia or thru rose colored glasses.

    There is the standard, which is perception, and then there is reality which you can't get here.

  16. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Great book and you're right! He'd of made a ton more money if he had just marketed the book to ALL dog owners instead of just APBT owners.

    That book paid for itself in less than a month. I refer back to it often with dosing.
    slim12 likes this.
  17. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    That would be Gordan Ryan. Absolutely great grappler who would get killed in MMA. And yes, on a ton of gear.
  18. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    Of course I am familiar with Vaghi, I trained at a Rickspn school for a while. Great grappler. Rickson had a much more top game smash mouth style of BJJ. And actually, we are going to see wrestlers (The Dagestanis, including the Sambo guys are wrestlers) continue to dominate the sport.
  19. GrChHaunch

    GrChHaunch Top Dog

    My old training partner, Jay White (2 time Pan Am Champ and MMA pro) went to train at Randy's school. He had to leave after he banged Randy's wife Kim. Of course Randy was cheating on Kim at the time.

    Sorry for the detour. Back to The Standard, like Slim Says, The Standard is a dog that wins.
  20. Pollo

    Pollo Big Dog

    you now got people like Umar and magomed that will stand bang with you. Umar just flat lined dude is last fight

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