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The Colby Line

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by Dr. Lector, Feb 28, 2012.

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  1. Dr. Lector

    Dr. Lector Big Dog


    Mr. John P. Colby was an active breeder for many years and produced some of the best dogs of his time. Much of his foundation stock was from the Gas House and Burke strains, as were the dogs of many other breeders. The difference in the quality of the dogs Mr. Colby produced was the result of breeding principles he employed. Also, Mr. Colby in my opinion possessed a very important attribute, which I refer to as a gift.

    Mr. Colby practiced a simplified version of genetics, Best to Best, selective breeding.

    Best to Best does not mean performing dogs alone. It entails all aspects of the dogs, from performance to pedigree. The most obvious qualities would be gameness, biting power, talent, stamina and a great bloodline. A bloodline is the result of a breeders influence.

    Over the years dogs bred by Mr Colby began to exhibit physical and mental characteristics such as conformation, color and gameness which distinguished them. These dogs were then referred to as Colby Dogs. Thus we have the Colby Bloodline. People were proud to say, "This here is a pure Colby dog". This sounds simple; and it leads people to ask; why there were not more top breeders? I believe deciding on what is Best to Best is the key.

    I'm not sure that every dog Mr. Colby bred to was Dead game; and I'm equally sure he did not breed to every Dead game dog he owned. This is where the gift comes in. It seems to be an in-born sense or ability. I believe most outstanding accomplishments have been made by men who were endowed with a gift for their respective fields.

    I do not believe that man knows enough about genetics at this time to produce great animals; and he most certainly didn't know enough in the days of Mr. Colby. Race horse people spend millions of dollars a year, trying to produce great horses, with only marginal success. Similarly, there is no pattern for producing Great dogs.

    The most essential qualities a breeder may possess are; dedication, a gift, a knowledge of Best to Best, and money might come in handy. If a breeder combines these attributes he is likely to produce, with luck, a great strain of dogs.

    It doesn't take too much effort to recall the great Colby dogs of the past. These dogs were bred from the pit and for the pit.

    But all of this brings us to a very important question; When a strain of dogs that were once highly regarded, such as Colby's, stops producing consistently good pit dogs, is this strain still to be considered good? I have heard people say, "I know he's a cur, but the blood is there". While this is true in many cases, I wonder how long we can continue to breed to curs and hope to produce game pit dogs.

    What is good blood and how long will it remain good if we continue to breed to dogs, who do not possess the qualities of their ancestors? While great breeders can breed to dogs who themselves do not exhibit good qualities; can the average breeder afford to take this gamble?

    I have seen strains of dogs that have not produced dogs fitting this description for many years, and people who are active in the sport refer to them as good blood or good brood stock. Many seem to proceed under the assumption, that once a bloodline is good it remains good forever. Many well-meaning people have continued to breed Colby dogs exclusively, thinking all that was necessary to preserve the quality of the strain, was to breed to a dog that had the name Colby on his pedigree.

    I believe that we have to continuously strive to improve the strain, in order to keep it as good as it was or is. It's an accepted theory, that in order for an institution to continue, it must change and continuously seek to improve. To preserve a bloodline, there is more required than just breeding to dogs whose pedigree shows a particular name. Change is required in order to prevent change in the quality of dogs produced. The Colby strain was developed by change.

    I have heard people say, that the dogs of yesteryear were gamer than those of today. Could it be, in some cases, because we have tried to play Pat and in doing so have lost ground. The people that have bred Colby dogs exclusively for these many years, thinking they were doing what was best, have perhaps underestimated their own ability to breed good dogs.

    Many of them have bred dogs for 40 years or more and could have perhaps contributed much more to their own dogs, by using their own ideas and experience. New ideas are necessary in every field. Sports records are consistently surpassed by those not satisfied with repeating someone else's past performance. Last year's record won't win this year's meet.

    Were the dogs of yesteryear really superior? I'm sure many dog men of the past would think we have it too easy, because we don't have to grow secret vegetables and cook our dog's food or boil their water. Penicillin has replaced many old remedies, making better dog care possible. I have read some diets that top dog men used. While some were good, none could compete with any good commercial dog food available in countless supermarkets. The poorest feeder today is able to provide better nutrition than the best feeder of yesteryear. We also have refrigeration and other conveniences.

    It is not my intention to criticize old-timers and their methods. How many of us would be feeding as many dogs if we had to cope with the same adverse conditions? I think our mission however, is to pick up where they left off, emulating their objectives rather than their methods. The Colby dogs of the past, fit the description of good blood, as their pit records indicate. The Colby strain was developed on the principle of Best to Best. When that principle is no longer employed there is bound to be a drastic change in quality. In a very short period of time a great strain of dogs can be reduced to a strain that can do no more than refer to their pedigree and say "My great, great, grand-daddy was a pit dog....I think!"


  2. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    ... and this opinion is from a great and respected dogman and breeder ?? http://www.game-dog.com/showthread.php?t=37204&page=1

    I think that just about any old and pure bloodline name could have been substituted in that article in place of, or in regards to "Colby", ESPECIALLY as time goes by and fewer and fewer old bloodlines are tested.

    Point by point, many folks much more knowledgeable than me about these dogs have responded with a counterpoint concerning speculation about modern day pure Colby dogs. Perhaps the broadest response has been that ... "there are few bloodlines in this country that have been kept true to the breeding practices employed when there was still a legal sport."

    That is speculation of course and if "you're" breeding "true", you know it, have nothing to prove here and few people will likely ever even see your dogs, much less own one. It's just that rare. So in terms of a broad general statement, it certainly doesn't seem far fetched in todays social and legal environment to make that statement.

    With that in mind, it's not unreasonable to say that the Colby line isn't any LESS "true" than virtually any other bloodline. In fact, I have often heard those with supposed knowledge say that the Colby line could be returned to a "true" dog in less breedings than perhaps other bloodlines. That too is opinion and speculation of course.

    I will never own a proven dog ... I will never own a dog ready to put in the box "with the best". What I will own is a dog from a pure bloodline ... a Colby. An artifact perhaps, indeed.

    Consider change as Indian Sonny points out ... and continually striving to improve a strain from a layman's point of view and in consideration of what is acceptable by society and law today ...[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]

    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]These dogs are ALWAYS changing and heading somewhere, just as every breed of animal on earth including man, with his own inherent adversity is. Time stands still for no one or no thing. But where are we and our dogs heading is a good question. Certainly evolving, changing, but to what exactly? Is new ground being broken here or can we look to the past and similar situations to predict the future? [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]My guess is that there will be no extinction of breeds, their characteristics and traits, but that due to over breeding with little regards to bettering the breed, I don't think that the historic purpose and associated traits will be preserved in an undiluted state, except for dedicated purists. Others will breed for whatever conformation is popular and widely accepted, whatever type dog does best at sports, agility, hunting and other legal sport as well as those who will "fad" breed. There will always be those who breed only for money. Perhaps some will cater to the pet bull trade and breed only the mildest most gentle lines. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]

    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Then, in another coupla hundred years more or less, people will search for the purists lines, and pure bloodlines and revive them, much in the same way that people have tried to bring back, for example , Native American dogs and other indigenous breeds like "Carolina dogs". There will always be those who have an interest in preserving breeds and bloodlines of animals.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The writing is on the wall. The purists today are becoming fewer and fewer. The circles are closing and becoming necessarily tighter. Few tested dogs from historical bloodlines, if any, are available to me or perhaps "you".[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What a Colby bred dog gives us is an artifact if you will. A standard perhaps. A pure undiluted bloodline that has been line-bred (not inbred) for over 110 years. A bloodline highly respected for accurate, honest and meticulous documentation as well as tight and time honored breeding practices. A legacy worthy of being passed on. I will own and feed a piece of that history.

    Just a thought, but does anyone think that by keeping the Colby bloodline pure ... they will at some point. perhaps in the far distant future be considered as a breed in and of themselves, distinct from other APBT's? A pure Colby dog as Indian Sonny mentioned, and perhaps recognized as a breed someday? I'm told that the ADBA has even had sanctioned events in Massachusetts in the past just for Colby conformation shows wherein only pedigrees approved by Lou Colby himself could participate, for example.

    Yes, I'm talking about "show" right now and Indian Sonny was talking about "go". But look at your own yard. How many decades ago was the last dog in your pedigree tested? How many breeders ago, in that pedigree is a breeder listed that was KNOWN to and perhaps even admitted to hanging papers?

    It's already widely accepted that in general, many Colby's have a distinct "look" easily recognized by breed "experts". So, I wonder ... if the fastlane dogs are changing ... the byb's are just throwing dogs together ... the P. T. Barnum's are reinventing fad dogs ... while the Colby dogs remain pure. What will it all mean?

    [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Long Live Our Dogs[/FONT] !!!
  3. BBT

    BBT Big Dog

    It will mean they are paper bred pets and that is all they are. If that last name or paper means that much to you then continue to pledge allegiance to it.

    Are Colby dogs any better than any other dogs? Or a better question would be, can or do Colby dogs compete with any other dog IN ANY THING??
    That is why they want to compete against themselves.

    Another point is that the COLBY dogs of yesterday did not get their name by just being a name! They were proven breedings, culled, and weeded through which is the complete opposite of the Colby dogs of today!

    If you want the closest representation of a real Colby type dog then look for those from proven breeding practices today! The dogs today furthest removed from Colby dogs would be a better representation of what a Colby dog stood for. And if your shooting for brindle and white then why not just a ruffian staff. Afterall they are Colby dogs lol
  4. dutchy954

    dutchy954 Big Dog

    BBT speaking from clearly no colby dog experience and stupidity.
  5. brad

    brad Pup

    a famous man once said (he could turn a bulldog into a german shepard in 3 generations) just my opinion but this answers the question on colby dogs on a statistical level.
  6. BBT

    BBT Big Dog

    Only an incompetent fool would come to such a conclusion.

    I speak from years working with the breed.

    Show me where Colby dogs excel! Show me!

    The Colby dogs of today DO NOT Excel in weight pull, any type of conformation, hunting, obedience, rescue, and certainly not the box. So go ahead and give me you one example of a fluke if you can

    I'm not hating on the Colby dogs. I don't pledge allegiance to paper. Show me, Prove to me these dogs can compete at anything

    Colby dogs will have their followers just like razors edge. Followers don't mean the dogs can compete at anything.
  7. dutchy954

    dutchy954 Big Dog

    I never realized from your earlier posts how ignorant you were. I havent got but one thing to prove to you and Colby dogs especially do not.
  8. BBT

    BBT Big Dog

    Hey Dutchy let me turn this around ask do you have any experience with any blood other then your Colby dogs?

    Your from Mass so I guess your geographically committed to Colby pets. Good for you and good for the dogs.

    Still waiting for you to prove to us where there are Colby dogs out performing any dogs of today in anything.
    I won't hold my breathe.
  9. Did you seriously just compare Colby to Razors Edge? Lmao...wtf
  10. BBT

    BBT Big Dog

    I'm ignorant because I'm real and don't chase papers?

    Colby dogs of today can't prove it plain and simple. They Are great line bred pets and that is it so be happy with that. Now go run away with your tail between leg like a new age Colby
  11. BBT

    BBT Big Dog

    Colby's are APBT. RE are down bred staffs. Do either line compete at anything? That was the comparison
  12. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    BBT, the same could be said of any other pure historical bloodline that isn't being tested. True ?? ... to single out Colby is to hate on Colby and frankly, I value your opinion of Colby, based on your experience with Colby ... not much ... and not much.

    As far as Ruffian or Razors edge being "Colby" ... that statement alone proves your ignorance. Colby might be one ingredient in the pie somewhere back ... but look at the dozens of other "working" bloodlines that also have either a foundation in or contribution from Colby. To deny that if you wish, is to show further ignorance.

    I don't think you're being fair with your statements and they appear hate/jealous/envious/ what ever, based.
  13. dutchy954

    dutchy954 Big Dog

    Sure, let me respond to, whoever the fuck you are, with names and dogs that are proven, here on the internet, that is really smart. You have no business to even be saying anything here. Your feedback on this thread was dogshit.
  14. Don't like Colby dogs? Don't get one. I'm sure Lou will rest better in his grave...
  15. BBT

    BBT Big Dog

    Joe bingo you took my ruffian comment and went the other way with it. I was just hinting towards the paint job and papers

    Yes what you said is true about lines that are no longer being used for anything. Now if you continue to Linebreed those lines that NO LONGER COMPETE AT ANYTHING you can't say they are the same dogs.
  16. BBT

    BBT Big Dog

    Typical foolish remark. Just like I said you cannot show me the last time a COLBY dog won anything. Conformation, weight pull, obediance, etc ANYTHING.! They Are a pet APBT line. And they are not the same as the were.

    Point taken
  17. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    He's flailing around like a little girl saying stupid shit and slinging himself up in peoples faces for no reason apparently, except he hates Colby dogs ... pure, respected, well documented and honest bloodlines and is damn proud of it.
  18. dutchy954

    dutchy954 Big Dog

    A while back you were whining about people discussing uselessness on this forum, well guess what, thats you, BBT the "real" gamedog man.
  19. JoeBingo

    JoeBingo Banned

    Truth be known ... MOST bloodlines MIGHT NOT BE what they once were ... now are they? How many bloodlines are tested, bred and culled today, the way they once were? Yet you just single out Colby. Weird idinit ... no hate intended huh?
  20. BBT

    BBT Big Dog

    Another foolish remark from an imbecile that because you cannot debate with facts you choose to continue to label and degrade.

    Like I said prove it of point taken.

    And I am not a Colby hater. I like them for what they are and respect them for what they were.

    Colby dogs used to compete in all arenas and consistently be successful. Now they are just a pet line.
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