The REPEATED disrespect of non-game dogs and breeders

Go back and read what I typed.
What you just said has nothing to do with what I just wrote. I clearly said that gameness does not make a dog an APBT. A game bred line can have curs and it does not change the fact that it is an APBT. IT ALL MATTERS ON WHY IT IS BRED. IF IT IS BRED FOR ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN GAMENESS, IT IS NOT AN APBT. THE POINT OF AMSTAFFS IS TO HAVE A BREED THAT IS NOT BRED FOR GAMENESS. THEREFORE, IF YOU ARE BREEDING FOR SOMETHING ELSE, IT IS AN AMSTAFF. JUST BECAUSE IT IS A CUR IT DOESN'T CHANGE WHAT BREED IT IS. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE REASON WHY IT IS BRED. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

 

DUH I dont know.

 

Try this....If you breed 2 gamebred dogs for working abilities,the pups are Pit Bulls.The ones that don't pass the test are culls.Or Cull Pits or Pet Bulls.They may be the same genetically,but they lack the heart of a true APBT.Not up to standard so to speak.
If you breed 2 gamedogs for color,size or looks,you've just created Am Staff pups.The parents are Pit Bulls,and the pups may be game,but when you breed for anything other than gameness,your not breeding true to the breed.

Did that make sense?

 

why is this character so worried about what people on the game dog forums think about his blue dog that obviously has no purpose here. why is it that he needs our approval or whatever in order to justify why he has his dog. excuse me Diesel i would just like to say that no one really gives a damn about your blue dog whether its a mutt a pit or a freakin poodle. so why do you come here to stir us up while we are minding our business discussing game dogs. if you wanna talk about game dogs then we really wouldn't have a problem now would we. GAME-DOG.COM not BLUE100POUND28INCHEHEADTALKSHITDOG.COM, i for one wish you would just go away!!!! anyone else agree???

 

Harsh but true

 

He doesn't have to go away... he just needs to realize just what site he is on. This site isn't like the other 29 he posts on. If he wants to learn, then he can be nice, suck it up, stay and learn. Otherwise, no need to be here.

 

anubis... you must have skipped a few posts to make a statement huh?
this isnt about my dog. I am on this board because I like gamedogs.
I dont have an issue talking about game dogs.. its why I am here.
BUt I am not going to sit and watch threads go by with repeated dismissal and disrespect of me and my dog. No, the comments were not to or about me specifically. but they are about "big blue dogs" and "blue dog breeders"... so I took it upon myself to make a thread where we can get it out and hopefully let it go. so it doesnt keep coming up over and over.

you dont have to like me... but I will be respected. and i feel that these types of comments are disrepectful. there is a way of expressing yourself and your views without putting people down. and i guess being around only other game breeders you havent had to do it. but there is more diversity on this board now... i would think that you would like to make all members feel welcomed.
I am not one of these blue doggers that came to stir up stuff and will be gone in a month. I like the people here and am loving the site... ill be here a while. and everytime i feel slighted or disrespected I am going to say something, thats my nature online and in life.

 

That is so true. I groom dogs and there was a "pit bull" in there the other day so i was talking to the guy about it and he got the dog from Land of Giants. He said that they are crossing APBT with american bulldogs. and he said he has papers on his dog and that his dog was a first gen cross of Am Bull & APBT. Which means they are "fudgeing" papers. Don't get me wrong he was a nice dog and very pretty but it's sad what is happening to this breed.

 

I have been reading this board for a while. I grew up with Game Bred Pit Bulls. My Grandparents lived on the Eastern Shore of VA and I spent every summer with them until I was 15. My Grandfather owned Pit Bull catching dogs (Hog Hunting). I love the Pit Bull in its originally game form I have owned two not including the ones my grandfather raised. Nevertheless, today I live in the Suburbs of Washington, DC (Virginia). I can not have a Game pit in my Neighborhood (Too many dogs and cats). But I still love the breed just without as much gameness so what do I do when I go by a dog? I get a Razor Edge Dog, now this dog would not survive a Day in my Grandfathers yard. But he is the best house dog I have ever had. He is protective, listens and does not attack my neighbors lab if he gets into our yard. And yes he has alot of the same traits as game dogs just without the game. Becuse of my grandfather I know you can, overtime, build anytype of bloodline you want. They orgins are pure bread game pits thats why I have seen RE dogs that have came out just as athelitic and game as my grandfathers catching dogs. These "Blue Dogs" are pure bread there selection was just different. They were bred for looks and size (Something my Grandfather dispizes just like you). However, everyone cannot live on 10 acres of land. So love your dogs just like I love my family on the Eastern Shore. But respect these new domestic pits just as my family loves and respects my siditty suburban azz.

 

Oh by the way here is my current dog

 

This is where you're wrong. These are NOT "new" pits, these are a totally different breed. Maybe call them the American Blue Terrier or American Blue Bulldog, but I uderstand that would have an effect on your rep & ego b/c you cannot call them "pits". We NEVER asked for a "new" pit therefore people cannot take it upon themselves to create a new version. I don't see people creating "new" labs or "new" Saint Bernards b/c they don't like the retrieving aspect or long hair aspect. Feel free to create a new breed, but DO NOT try to change one that will NEVER be changed. Have a good day.

Edit: And by the way, I live on a country dead end street & have neighbors on both sides. They understnad what will happen to their dogs if they are irresponsible enough to allow them into my backyard. And don't think that it's only pit bulls who will attack an unwanted dog on their property. And my dogs behave very well when being walked on their leashes---it's called (here's a new concept) TRAINING.

 

i agree with miakoda

 

Well said, Mia!

 

Actually I am not wrong. These dogs ancestors were pits so because they do not have the gameness does this change there genetic make-up?? And god I am glad I am not your neighbor. So you will tell your neighbors 5-year-old daughter "Sorry your lab is dead but it should have stayed in your yard?". What working purpose does your pit serve? You do not own land so you can't use him to protect you against wild animals. You can scratch him, and if that is the case am I the one with the big ego? Again, these NEW PITS our for those who do not need game dogs. If you do not like it that is up to you. However, TODAY you are in the minority of pit owners which is why I believe you are so admant because you know the purpose of game dogs has come and pass. So again you tell me how are they a totally different breed. I can trace my dog all the way back to game dogs. So how are they not APBT? So if a Lab can't fetch does that mean he is no longer a Lab?

Also I do not believe in the super bully pits (Super Short, no snout, too fat etc). I think they should still be super athelites as in the past. I believe those not creating healthy dogs are a problems.

Last thing your game dog was created from big dogs. They breed them down to make them the game dogs you love today. So if dogmen could do that why could they not create a more bully Pit Bull line? My Grandfather is a old Dog man and I have never heard him call my Dog anything other that a Pit Bull. I take that back he calls him cur, punk, worthless but that does not change the fact he is a pit.

 

mia is 100% right i agree totally.

 

[QUOTE=miakoda]This is where you're wrong. These are NOT "new" pits, these are a totally different breed. Maybe call them the American Blue Terrier or American Blue Bulldog, but I uderstand that would have an effect on your rep & ego b/c you cannot call them "pits". We NEVER asked for a "new" pit therefore people cannot take it upon themselves to create a new version. I don't see people creating "new" labs or "new" Saint Bernards b/c they don't like the retrieving aspect or long hair aspect. Feel free to create a new breed, but DO NOT try to change one that will NEVER be changed. Have a good day.

Edit: And by the way, I live on a country dead end street & have neighbors on both sides. They understnad what will happen to their dogs if they are irresponsible enough to allow them into my backyard. And don't think that it's only pit bulls who will attack an unwanted dog on their property. And my dogs behave very well when being walked on their leashes---it's called (here's a new concept) TRAINING.[/QUOTE]


You never cease to amaze me!!!! incredible truth in this one for sure.
I was going to go through and underline all the good parts but as I re-read it-it was all good.

 

If this was true would it not give me more of a reason to want a game-dog?

 

You just don't get it do you? Gameness is only one of the attributes we complain about these BYB's breeding away from our breed, they are NOT genetically the same dog!!! There has been a "MASTIFF" in the wood pile!

"I am not wrong. These dogs ancestors were pits so because they do not have the gameness does this change there genetic make-up??"

You are dead wrong and it doesn't matter what your Grandad has called your dog, he is probably being nice to you because that is what Grandads are suppose to do. These dogs are not the same pit bull evolving into a super ego boosting freak for the good of mankind....LMAO! They are being bred this way by crossing different breeds together.

 

Actually I am not wrong. These dogs ancestors were pits so because they do not have the gameness does this change there genetic make-up??

I don't think it has to do with gameness, it has to do with many generations removed from the breed standard. The ansectors of the Pit Bull, were some kind of bull dog, but after many generations of mixing a terrier and bull dog a new breed was created, they were not THAT terrier or bulldog anymore.


Again, these NEW PITS our for those who do not need game dogs. If you do not like it that is up to you. However, TODAY you are in the minority of pit owners which is why I believe you are so admant because you know the purpose of game dogs has come and pass.

How do you substantiate a comment like this, how many folks have you personally interviewed. All dogs can have some form of game, as one dogman described to me it is just the level of game that is scrutinized and valued.

So again you tell me how are they a totally different breed. I can trace my dog all the way back to game dogs. So how are they not APBT?

And if you trace far enough you will see your dog came from an English Bulldog perhaps....but they are so FAR removed from what makes each dog what they are they are different.

So if a Lab can't fetch does that mean he is no longer a Lab?

No, but if he no longer has the physical characteristics that distinguish his breed, then he is something else, whether he fetches or not.

Last thing your game dog was created from big dogs. They breed them down to make them the game dogs you love today. So if dogmen could do that why could they not create a more bully Pit Bull line?

There are many theories of pit bull evolution. Most researchers believe that the pit bull-type dog was created by crossing a bulky Bulldog with a smaller, faster Terrier, resulting in a Bull-and-Terrier, which was said to excel at dog fighting because it possessed the strength and tenacity of a Bulldog with the speed and determination of a Terrier. Thus the pit bull breeds carry the name "Terrier" in their registered breed names. Over time, the Bull-and-Terrier evolved into the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, which, when brought over to the United States, eventually became the American Pit Bull Terrier. The American Staffordshire Terrier became the AKC show version of the APBT.

So you see the dogmen did exactly that, they changed the original breeds of dogs (which I would not call BIG) and then changed the name of the breed. I think all that is being said here, is perhaps thats what should be done with the dogs that are being bred outside of the APBT breed standard, because by definition they are not APBTs.