badger trial dogs

And how exactly do you know that the dogs of today were better than the dog of old? As far as I know raw is the best diet for a dog, which is what was fed back then, unless your talking about kibble?

As far as conditioning, today's is probably better equipment wise, supplement wise and steroid wise. This is all artificial and what can you tell about a dog if it is on steroids or supplements, how are you supposed to know how much of it is the dog and how much of it is the supplements or steroids? Alot of well known dogmen admit to using steroids.

Personally I think hand walking with a dog the pulls on the leash is the best conditioning possible, as long is the dog is pulling the whole way. Back then if a dog stopped pulling they would let it drag chains the rest of the way.

 

Ok Woody badger baiting aside, that is an issue we are not going to agree on. I will ask again. What is the difference between the dogs now and the dogs that were imported? besided being bigger of course?

 

ok, lets say you gota good one from a good man, and his yard is the same, and the yard before that, you are getting a dog from generations of good dogs produced by good men. all bred for one purpose. wouldnt you think you have a pretty good damn chance of getting a good one from this long line of selective breeding? thats my way of thinking, take it or leave it. its all about the man you get a dog from, agreed?

 

I do agree to a certain extent, but you still fail to answer my question. What was added to the the dogs that were imported? Old family dogs for example. These dogs were exclusively bred by the same breeders here in Cork and Kerry. Look at a map of Ireland and you will see how small these places are. These dog were bred for decades upon decades here maybe longer. It is not known how long exactly. Point is do you really think line breeding started in America? Really?

This is why they were called "Old Family".

Yards exist everywhere, not just the US. I know of a guy who had been breeding the same line of dogs for nearly 40 years, he is dead now. Gamest dogs on the planet, fuck all ability though lol. There are still alot of line bred dogs here now, some have American dogs in their pedigree, most don't.

I will be glad to export a dog to you if you ever consider trying one out lol Just joking.

 

i think the difference between the dogs of long ago and today is that the average ability of them has increased.take trusty in early 1800s -104xw or colbys pincher 24xw in 1900s.obviously they were vastly superior to their competion.the same thing can be seen in greyhounds-the slowest ones have got a lot faster and the fastest ones have gotten a little faster.regarding badgers (irish-european ones) ,almost no dog that can fit down their burrow is able for them.an old fellow i used to know once (r.i.p) told me that plenty pit-proven game dogs will cur out to a badger.the badger is one of the gamest wild animals,i know of a plummer terrier that stayed 48 hours to one ,a dog who would make ribbons of a fox in less than 5 minutes.out in the open its a different story,a good lurcher could finish one.im new to this forum so hello everyone,enjoy reading yeer posts

 

my mate used to have pits here in the u.k pre ban, and his dogs very rarely killed one. the only time they could is if they got in the gut. trust me it takes a very good dog to take a full grown boar

 

you would have to let em go to work for a real good long time and even then the pig may just die from exhaustion

 

by boar i think he means a male badger

 

boar, sow, cub

 

Yes a boar is a fully grown male badger.

 

the dogs used in the trials were not meant to kill the badger. their job was to go in and seize the badger and draw it from the sett and it had to be done in total silence. if the dog made noise it failed the test.

 

there all over Alberta with dugouts the size of plastic barrels, man they breed them big out west!:eek::eek: almost scared to walk by the hole without a good dog!

 

Yes Redbill that is true. This was for the IKC trials. Men however had their own digs too and usually after the dadger was drawn, it would carry on and the dog would usually kill the badger, not all the time, plenty of dogs ended up dead too.

 

hi lads, just been reading the thread and it seems that some lads on here dont think that a badger is a worthy test of gameness for the mighty apbt? and that other breeds are not game just because they are not a success in the fighting ring? well i can assure you gentlemen that the badger dogs of old here in ireland were as game as you can get.they were certified for their incredible gameness and rightly so.to fight a badger in an 11 inch square tunnel is no easy job especially for a big dog.the dogs that won were the dogs that chose to fight the badger in the pocket and chose not to draw him out like someone wrongly stated earlier in this thread.the dogs that wanted to stay inside with the badger got more points for doing so.wheaten terriers did especially well at the trials and were more than a match for the bull breeds. when a dog "cracked" and started baying at the badger this meant he had lost his gameness and was no longer game.believe me when i say that a badger in a tight place can and will take the bottom part of the jaw off a dog in a matter of seconds,it dosent matter if its a bull terrier,wheaten ,staff ,or pitbull, a badger in a tight spot,not out in the open,will do damage. A badger in a tight spot will give a pit bull plenty,dont worry about that,especially an old badger that has been worked before because they get worse the more theyre worked. good luck.

 

Chingrip in my opinion the only reason a "badger in a tight spot" can survive the dogs you mentioned is because an 11 in square tunnel is to tight a stop for a bulldog to shake out its holds...but a mouth to mouth biting contest doesnt prove gameness as far as the APBT is involved..but i can tell you that bagders get ripped to shreads all the time "in a tight spot" by the Patterdale Terrier all the time in the states..no offense but we tend to use the dogs bred for badgers on badgers as nobody I know would try and send there gamedogs underground..if they could even fit...

 

Even on land a pitbull would have all he could handle against a big boar badger

 

Are you serious? I don't know what kind of "pitbull" you are talkin about but you put a honest [] dog on a boar in the open and you will see a dead boar.

 

And I think it's because, depending on the breed/animal, "gameness" IS defined differently.

"Gameness" per APBT is PIT gameness -- and it IS a very specialized, almost artificial form of gameness in that pit fighting didn't grow out of any kind of "real" work. Most other breeds demonstrate THEIR gameness in some form of real "work" -- in this instance, in helping humans rid area of troublesome pests. Badger trial competition grew out of what was/is real "work". Same with sled dog racing, hunting and sheep herding trials. All of those breeds can demonstrate what could be called "gameness" within THEIR specialty of work. But no, it's not "pit" gameness.


Dreamer

 

I understand that animlas will go to great lengths to get their given job done. I repect what they do and really like watching a good working dog work. With that being said, I will never change my opnion that gameness can only be proven one way. We all know what that is.

 

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