Black pazmanian

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=86148
The PP dog beat MrHargroves and carolina hotboys but unfortunatly lost his life to a corn on the cobb at GCs place,,,
he could have made it far and the magma dogs sister hung herself before she could have done the same...

It was also said the cowboys from hell jr dog might have made it somehwere if he was with somebody that knew how to show a bulldog...

I agree Paz would have put more out there if he was bred more and to different bitches,,,
the Ivan dogs were outclassing the paz dogs and thats why paz wasnt bred as much as he should have been...

 

Pp dog looks good bred nice also...good ivan dogs are tough to complete with...just wish they wouldve did a little more experimental breedings.. I wouldve like to see some pure patrick stuff or pats homer stuff maybe even some holland stuff

 

So the ones off him youve seen had everything except distance in them? Or they were missing other thinhs also...?

 

the paz jr dogs were as solid as any but a bit crazy to handle as some liked to excite bite,,,
pp,,, magma and his sisters were exceptions and thats why I liked them and also the same reason i shyed away from breeding to paz jr...
some from rochester say paz jr and peaches to be the best male and female for sometime...

They bred paz jr to his sister and made for more brood stock,,,
heres a double bred paz sr dog that produced two champions...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=77754
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=83054
beat...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=60052

the only thing paz jr lacked was a peddler offering him at public stud so he could have been bred more but produced solid otherwise...

 

Is Ivan littermate Elo? That B from TK's owned? If so how did he produce?

 

I seen a decent ivan/Gabe bred dog..imo they need more mouth and more air..haven't seen enough to make a honest statement on it..but the one I seen was ok'ish

 

The ones I've seen tight seem to lack what you said but crossed I seen dogs that had it all...I think they may be a good catalyst for crosses you will get everything you need

 

Only seen a handful of dogs down from Ivan. Mostly crossed to other lines. One in particular that I really liked:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=549842

When in shape is slick as glass.

Another one I like, but still being patient before giving a final thought on.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=554358

As far as the paz jr stuff, it was alright. Didn't have the chance to see anything that really impressed me other than Jr himself but most were around average, just larger than I ever cared for them to be. Probably the best one I was around constantly was this guy,

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=513987

He was alright, nothing to write home about but he was coming every time. Like a big ol freight train.
His littermate brother was mediocre at best. They were always too large for my personal preference, mid 50+. More dog than I care to have to handle. Fantastic looking dogs though in appearance . The paz blood is very potent. I still can see traits 4+ generations down the road and crossed into other lines.

 

Eloheim was a brother to Elijah and the MB dog all off SIDNEY and out PEACHES(wsk renegade ex minnie mouse)...
Ivan was a half brother to those dogs off SIDNEY out of BUCKWHEAT(patricks red baron ex wcc bullette)...
The Hanibal dog was also a half brother off SIDNEY out SEXY MO( lees reno ex patricks shabba)...

From what I understand all these dogs mentioned off SIDNEY were at least 1xwinners
and the only three breedings SIDNEY produced in good fashion...

As far as the type of dogs that have come from this SIDNEY family the last twenty years has been every type,,,
short winded with heart,,, long winded with no ability,,, cold warm and hot...

as in any family bad ones are prevalent,,, same with average,,, above average and a handful of greats...

My old friend dirty conditioned close to a hundred more than his fare share and chose them over most,,,
his only other family he liked as well was Mr.Mims and he had good results breeding those two together...

Its hard to base a family thats not bred very tight to such standard of consistency on just experiencing one individual...

If you look at how the family is bred,,, it seems to basically be a DIRTY MARY line with more BOLIO additives from patricks
and also the ELI bullyson influence from SIDNEY and PEACHES...

basically boyles bred back to 2/3rds of the family vial bolio and eli...

if your choosey you get three sought out phenotypes,,,
BOLIO,,, ELI & HANK....

In the bolio phenotypes you get fast smart precision that are very athlethic and easy to shape,,,
down side is they stay very busy on the chain as some tend to be high strung...

Both Sidney and PEACHES were the standard as far as a ELI phenotype,,,
straight ahead offense that are very strong and rough and the down side is typical of ELI dogs that are a bit harder to keep...

The Hank phenotype comes from the KRISTINA dog that could wander in and out of the house on the dog yard with no problems,,,
a bit slower and stronger than most and very,,, very inteligent dogs that most would right of as curs as they are passive
but ten to be real methodical durable think tanks...

The HANK type make great house dogs and also great for novices that want the flexability of having a bulldog
that you can treat like a regular dog with out much troubles,,, real lil rascal petey types...

Some of those types will pull funny HANK moves and trick the average bulldogger that dont know better,,,
and some are the type that will only quit at their objective if the owner does does first,,,
as Mr.Burton said about HANK,,, not for the faint of heart or I would say the weak of soul and mind...

I wouldnt feed anything that I wouldnt cross into this family and I can say that all my friends and family
have raised these dogs from young teens to grandparents with exceptional results...

every family has there fair share of undesirables but most cant go on to be great house dogs...

I can say that I think the hands on approach of raising some of these dogs had made them what they are and they are not for most...

 

Ivans grandsire Patricks RED BARON and another dog purchased from Patrick named THOR were both good dogs that fell victem
to another dog purchased from Patrick named SHABBAs son ch ROLEX...

Rolex was such a great animal with ace abilities that he won four back to back from a very young age and the owner felt ROLEX extra ordinary
ethic should be a standard,,, when i say back to back i mean calling the weight not to far out from the last show,,,
which might be fine if they didnt endure that much but its a good rule of thumb to rest inbetween for a multitude of reasons...

RED BARON aka JAKE and THOR were both 2xers back to back and came out in there third shows stale from no rest and excessive chemicals
in their bodies with no rest or detox and really didnt perform to the previous two outings standard...
Both went into the best and JAKE lost or quit to Hardcores ch MILO or MYSTIC...

RED BARON aka JAKE produced the HITMAN that beat Strickley Buisness and HITMAN produced the SANDY bitch...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=210454
she really produced including ch DUDE...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=297895
DUDES bro RED JACK was good one who really produced also,,, their sire really produced...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=188079
The ch Sand Storm bitch was one of the absolute best that lost to the absolute best gr ch STORM7x
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=329772
This family produced multi winners in each litter and the future is brighter than ever for junior...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=407574
his sister RUBY looks alot like the Ivan dog himself or at least like one of his daughters...

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=299488
HITMAN is also way back in this dogs ped and a nice one at that,,, his daughter CRUELLA was said to be evan better...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=347063


http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=251849
not only does this bitch look like the great dirty mary but she also produced great in her only litter...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=542439

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=503217
outlaw stopped a frisco bred champion for his fifth,,,
Ivan and hanibal top and bottom...

Three grand champions down from Hitman and his nephew Ivan,,,
Its seems to cross well and go far in my studies...

 

Is this a post about Black Paz, Jr or Ivan?? Trying to see the direction it's going in.

 

also Dirty Steve ran many dogs, his only preference was a winning dog, he ran through plenty of shit with many dogs.. RIP old friend

 

The post is about Paz lol..just got a lil off track like every other post on here

 

a friend owned them both at the same time and they both got along well(supervised)...
PAZ was of ACE calibre and IVAN was FREAK with surgical precision...

I first sought Paz Jr as a stud but soon realized the Ivan dogs were what I was looking for...

Back on topic...

 

Oh ok wanted to make sure, I love off topic because it opens the convo up lol.. Just wanted to make sure I knew which way it was going before I chimed in..

 

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Who got this dog I'm trying to pay a pretty penny for something like this hmu if u can lead me in the right direction youngvedoe1@gmail.com