Breeding Patterns

There is no doubt that on paper breeding patterns have changed among Pit Dog fanciers over the years.

Today the fad is all about how tight a dogs pedigree is, and one question I personally have on this trend is that why are bitches hardly ever inbred or even linebred on???

Any insight or opinions on why this is...?

 

i was told by an old timer a few years back that people are starting to believe that the dam's ped doesnt matter and the stud's gene's will be dominant and overrule everything on the bottom side(which isnt true). I myself totally disagree with this... sometimes the stud's are more dominant and sometimes the dam's are more dominant(depends on the animal itself). but to answer your question(no offense to anyone) most people werent showed how to successfully start and run a breeding program. they just breed because they THINK their dog goes "good" with the other dog, but in reality they arent breeding for the future, theyre breeding for the right now...plus alot of these people are only doing it for the $. thats not a good thing to do, because (as many of you know) if your doing everything the correct way you will barely break even with the $ you make from puppies(unless your one of the crazy people who charge 1500$ per pup)

 

also i would like to add that 75% of people do not test their stock...being dog shows, weight pulling, treadmill racing, hog hunting, etc.... the few people who do actually do these things should know what dogs to breed and when(and i mean SHOULD) unfortunately this doesnt always happen and therefore you get your standard run of the mill BYB...i honestly hope i didnt offend anyone. if i did i sincerely appologize, just had to get this off my chest and this was the perfect topic to do it in

 

Gotta agree with FLK on this. Unfortunately most people who are breeding do not have a scientific understanding of how genetics work.

There are certain "laws" to how genes and DNA will be inherited - these rules vary from animal to animal (as in they vary between animal species, not from one dog to another), but needless to say not much in breeding is "chance" if you have a deep understanding of genetics and how traits will be passed on and inherited.

However, when someone without an understanding of how reproduction and the formation of a baby occur on a scientific genetic level observes something that they think is a pattern they will form an opinion that may directly contradict what is possible by genetic "rules". They will then teach this opinion to others and this unintentionally incorrect information will start to root itself deeply in a breeding community. An example of this is people thinking that nothing about the gyp matters as the males DNA is somehow more "dominant" to shaping the dog.

 

most definatley agree with you!!! im lucky to have the mentors i did(not saying any names) and without them i wouldnt have known where to begin...because for a newbe its a whole lot of knowledge that could take a lifetime to learn by yourself.

 

i absolutely love genetics btw...which is probably why im going to school(im in the military so it gets me out of work lol) for my masters in animal genetics and my undergrad in zoology

 

I'd always heard that genetics was like flipping a coin, in a sense. Meaning, the Laws of Probability dictate that it'll land on heads 50% of the time, and it'll land on tails 50% of the time; but in practice, this hardly ever happens. Same with genetics, like, say in a litter of 5 pups, 1 will favor his sire taking, say 70%+ of its genetic make-up from him, while two might favor the dam, taking upwards of 80% from her, and in different proportions (similar and different traits as the dog's phenotype), etc.

I'm not a geneticist, though, and my little hypothesis, as I understand it, might be wrong. However, saying the sire is always dominant, whilst the dam isn't and doesn't matter, that's just dead wrong even with a rudimentary understanding of genetics.

 

thats kinda what im sayin, but heres the thing about breeding, wether it be dogs, cats, horses, etc... its not by chance....AT ALL... but what happens when you breed is in the offspring you get the AVERAGE of the pedigree . so in reality the dad might have a little more dominance or vice-versa BUT you will still have the AVERAGE of the 2 animals... so if you have an extremely athletic male and an extremely "game" female but the past gen's of their pedigrees are...so so...the pups will be a little better than so so....BUT if you have a decently athletic male and a decently "game" female but the pedigree is LOADED with champs and grand champs....your pups will be better than decent... i hope i put this as so you can understand it

 

Most people when breeding don't know exactly what it is they want to accomplish when they do it, alot of people, game dog breeders or not like colors of dogs. I to have been in that mind state a time or two but it is what it is. I think the bitch is slighty over looked for reasons stated and a few of my on opinons(sp). The female has always played the same role as the male in breeding but, we as a newer gen. look to the past for ideas and patterns, but when we go look back we see performers on the top side more offten whether it be topside of the sire or top side of the dam. Breeders know one thing,they want performers and NOW! What they tend to forget is that just cause you can perform doesn't mean you can produce. Its kinda like the chicken and the egg, what came first the performer or the producer? So, seeing the performers on the top side they try to put more of that topside in whatever program they have going, forgetting that the bitch they overlooked played just as big a part if not bigger than that male. I say bigger part cause a male well never whelp a litter. Sure Genes do jump around and bounce all over the place, but me I would rather start a program with a good bitch from a performer bred to a producer, rather than that performer who was some hybrid cross or out of a bitch that got luckey that litter.
Mac

 

There is no doubt that on paper breeding patterns have changed among Pit Dog fanciers over the years.

Today the fad is all about how tight a dogs pedigree is, and one question I personally have on this trend is that why are bitches hardly ever inbred or even linebred on???

Any insight or opinions on why this is...?

***Today I think breeders are becoming more knowledgeable when it comes to breeding. The reason you see more tighter pedigrees is breeders are realizing once you close the gene pool the offspring are more consistent. Outcrossing and loose linebreeding almost always have offspring all over the place as far as specific traits the breeders were looking for. When breeders do get that dog that has the traits they outcrossed for in the first place that dog usually never reproduces itself.

I personally don't understand why more breeders don't inbreed or linebreed on females. I personally like females because they are more of a guide as far as production goes. Females can't have thousands of offspring ...cough like Mayday or Frisco...lol. Nowadays studs get more fanfare some deserving some not. Most breeders don't realize that females like Honeybunch, Awesome Baby and the Miss Leakys should be more prominent in peds than just a stud bred hundreds of times.

 

So when you out cross will you get more consistency line breeding off the outcrossed offspring or taking those same offspring back to the dogs behind them.. Hope I make sense as I don't breed and like to have some kinda insight on every aspect on what genetically make great dogs,great dogs

 

this would be because more times than not, males went to the [] and not females...this would be why you see more male performers than females...they just didnt get the chance to prove them selves.... ask any old timer and he will tell you the same thing

actually a true breeder would know that a great dog doesnt come over night, and they would NEVER rush it...

i do agree with this....

i also agree with this....

not saying any of this to try and make you mad, just my thoughts on what you said.... i by no means know everything and im sure some might disagree with what i have said, but it is what it is....

 

i agree, and like you siad the dog will(and not just usually, hardly ever) 99.9% of the time NOT ever produce an extraordinary dog...UNLESS they are bread over hundreds and hundreds of times...like frisco, like mayday, like lukane, like poncho....etc. the only reason these dogs have such breathtaking numbers is the sheer number of breedings made.... now dont think i am taking anything away from them cause im not, but if you breed something that much you BETTER have something to show for it....