Clouse blood

Good luck !
Over and out !

 

lmao i wouldnt try and talk anyone into tellin a lie on my behalf..if I am wrong about something I am just wrong..It wont be the first or last time I have been wrong.

 

I brought this up in the old family reds before i read this lil pointer. I was thinking right along with you it seems.

 

thanks yall, i talked to the same guy last night. i guess the old irish names and seeing "hemphill" dogs lead him that way. i haven't gone that far back in the ped beyond what i showed to see what's what.

 

That's a common mistake.

 

Skagg's dogs were directly from Hemphill. Ch. Butcher Boy is clearly OFRN from Trice, Lightner, Williams, I.D. Cole and others. Stabber had a lot of Corvino in him from Wakkie and Fanny, this is why Frank Creed wanted him, owned him and bred to him. Any breeder, including my name, you have to judge each pedigree individually. Here is a pure Clouse female I owned: Well darn can't upload it from my proxy. I'll upload it later.

 

BTW almost all the Clouse dogs on Bert yard and others, all the ones I saw like Mitzie, Butcher Boy, Mary Hammond's dogs' Rocky, Rusty of George, Michael Martin, Raymond Parrish dogs, were all red nose dogs. There was a few black nose when he crossed. Speaking of Patrick, what was Tater and Faith? Or crossed dogs off them like Little Tater, Buck, Pacer, etc.?

 

Welcome back Mike.

I agree, Clouse dogs have pretty much the same foundation as OFRN dogs. Mostly irish, mostly old family.
But it's no strain of OFRN dogs. OFRN and Clouse dogs are bred similar down from the same foundation.
No doubt. The so called 'english bred' dogs also have the very same foundation. Percentage wise just the opposite. Bred a different way.
It's all about percentages. There is NO new crosses today.
Breeding a Clouse dog to an OFRN is still tighter bred and less of a cross as breeding an english bred dog to the OFRN.
But it's all at least loose line breeding.
Clouse dogs are not an OFRN strain. Could be used maybe like that (by people who care about OFRN's), but it is not. And never was.
To me OFRN means dogs with a red nose, because that's what it says. And a black nose is a huge sign for a cross within a pure red bred strain.
I don't say it's bad or something. We are even at the same side, mostly.
I just wonder about when I read about old family or old family red or old family red nose, and I'm looking on a black nose dog.
Well, I just don't get it.
Good to hear that you are busy with the old stuff you got. I wish I could take a look. Let me know, if you need a yard boy for a year or two.
Enjoy and have a good one !

 

A large part of Bert dogs do come down from the strain of OFRN. Bert's bloodline was very much OFRN. Jobe and Humpy carried a lot of it. This was the family of dogs Bert was last using. Bert dogs wasn't from the same foundation, they were from it. Meaning Bert dogs at the end was based like this, Hemphill females through Skaggs, Butcher Boy (OFRN mix) and Stabber (mixed with Corvino). Check Clouse Red Boomer and his litter mates. Look at Otter's dogs. I owned Reid's Tulsa Red, Red Fox and Red Satan when a pup (Hemphill/Clouse blood) I think I named many more red nose dogs of Clouse then there were black nose crossed dogs. IMO yes I believe Bert Clouse's dogs were heavy in OFRN strain. I judge this by his main bloodline of dogs. Sure he used other stock and bred other but his main stock was from OFRN strain like Ch. Butcher Boy who was a light (Yellow) red/red nose.

 

I always believed to call an OFRN dog an OFRN dog, that it must be purebred within this strain of reds.
An OFRN mix doesn't sound pure to me. Mixed with Corvino also does not sound pure to me.
For the rest, I agree.
It's always one and the same point where we disagree.
You are the one saying that the old family dogs always came in red. So, they are old family reds and nothing else.
And you are also the one, who can't disagree that blacknoses don't fit into this story.
I still don't get it.
It's like calling Frisco dogs Bolio bred dogs.

 

Wasn't the goal of the so called OFRN breeders to come as close as possible to the original OFR stock ?
And I just believe they were doing this with red nose dogs that have the right genetic set up.

 

LOL trying to figure what others are doing will drive you crazy, specially breeders years ago! LOL

 

Yall crack me up....lol

 

Yep, and it works well. LOL
Those crazy people really is a problem.

But calling a dog like Black Widow OFRN just does not sound right to me.
Maybe I can agree to call her red littermates OFRN, but Black Widow ? No.
She's a black heavy OFRN bred dog. I agree. But SHE is not an Old Family RED Nose.
I will agree to almost everything, if we just would call them only Old Family dogs.
That way it would be possible to accept red AND black noses within this strain, line, family, or however you want to call them, maybe even breed.
But it's Old Family Reds, right ?

 

Well what's new??--

 

Sometime it takes the one eyed guy to lead the blind.
But if one of the blinds is yellin out: I can see ! I can see !, than nobody else is able to disagree.

People should realize that breeding does not only mean mating or producing.
It's more like having a master plan. Without it, no breeder.
And I keep my head up and will still believe that there was some "breeders" back in those days, more than we have today.
Breeders, not just dog producing people.
IM makes a great example. Mike, how many times did you change your breeding philosphy over the years ?
Well, you got wiser with time and, I guess, it helps with the selection of the right dogs for your breedings.
You probably tried this and that, but did you ever change philosophy ?
I don't think so, cause you are a breeder.
You know what you want, you know what to look for, you know how to get it and you know how to do it.
Well, from this point it's very simple, right ?

 

It doesn't matter calling Black Widow not a OFRN doesn't change the fact 75% of the blood that runs thru her veins is OFRN bred by ANOTHER OFRN breeder. OFR have been extinct for many years so that term can't be used to describe 75% of a dog's makeup regardless of coat or nose. Nothing can change the blood (OFRN) that flows thru Widow's veins or the OFRN breeders that are responsible for breeding the dogs behind her.

OFR became extinct when those individuals who bred them were no longer were related by kin.and also when those dogs bred by kin were no longer closely related! There is an excellent article in an '91 Gazette that breaks down when OFR no longer existed.

 

If the dog carrys pradomanitly ofrn blood it is an ofrn dog no madder the nose color

 

RGB good post man..Good post by IM also.

 

What you always believed is wrong! You are to caught up on the literal term OFRN. I showed the pedigree of Reckless Red who had a red nose that was lower in OFRN blood than Black Widow. Reckless Red had black nose dogs in his pedigree...close! Nobody can change the genetic makeup of a dog regardless of coat or nose. Once again there were many OFRN breeders and many breeders who used OFRN dogs in their breedings.

I'll use this breeding as an analogy.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=315694

If I were to take a black nose black coat son and bred him back to the dam and all the pups turned out black/black nose would it change the FACT the pups are purer in OFRN blood than Wilder's Reckless Red? Can I reinvent an extinct OFR term to describe a black/black nose OFRN dogs when the OFR term was used to describe dogs bred by close kin individuals then closely bred individual dogs bred by close kin?

Nothing changes the FACT regardless of coat or nose doesn't change a pedigree or who bred them!