dog chow VS ol roy high performance

This was a little post Cali Jack made a few weeks ago that I figured was relevant even though it's talking about RAW vs Kibble. What he says about kibble is pretty much the truth though, regardless of brand. Anyway, regardless of ones opinion of Jack, I actually agree with it and even though I do feed both here, I feed kibble way more often simply because I have yet to figure out a way to do a RAW diet for all my dogs properly and for less than I spend on Kibble a month. When I do figure it out though, I will never feed kibble again.


Arguing and debating which brand of dry kibbled feed is "better" than another is a form of insanity among dogmen. And when I say "insanity" I mean exactly that, because it is a failure to understand a basic reality about ALL nutrition, not just canine nutrition. Essentially, it is like arguing over which form of fast-food French fries is "healthier" than another ... McDonald's, Burger King's, or W...endy's? It is a stupid argument because NONE OF THEM are in any way a form of health food, so debating the "health benefits" of over-processed, over-cooked French fries is also insane. THEY'RE SIMPLY NOT HEALTHY. What you people are doing is essentially arguing about which OVER-COOKED, OVER-PROCESSED, DRY, LITTLE BROWN PELLETS have the least amount of shit ingredients to them. Some of you are feeding over-cooked, over-processed kibble that once started as good feed (before it was heated, dried, and over-processed to the point all the moisture, enzymes, and micronutrients that were once there are now ruined by turning it all into little dry pellets) ... while others of you are feeding what started out as unhealthy shit ingredients to begin with, and are now over-processed little brown pellets of unhealthy, shit ingredients (corns, wheats, etc.). So it's time yall stop this nonsense and face the music. It's all shit: all kibble. So ... what this means is if you are feeding ANY kind of kibble you are simply NOT feeding the best you can feed, period. I don't give a damn what you're feeding. And you're not saving money either. So let me clear the air of this nonsense and tell you people the real truth: Feeding RAW is the healthiest way to feed your dogs, and it is LESS EXPENSIVE also. Therefore, if you're feeding kibble to your dogs, it is NOT because you care about your dogs' health, and it is NOT because it is cheaper to do so. The only reason any of you is feeding kibble is because you are too GD lazy to get up off your asses and put any effort into the preparation of your dogs' meals, and you just like to grab a bucket and get the chore of feeding them out of your way as quickly as possible, by throwing SOME form of "kibble" at them. So why don't every one of you take a good look in the mirror and admit this to yourselves. You are not feeding kibble to your dogs because it's cheaper (it is NOT), and you are not feeding kibble to your dogs because it's better for them (it is NOT). You are feeding kibble because you are too GD lazy to change your ways, to take the time to prepare a really good and nutritious RAW meal for your dogs, and that is all there is to it. So let us end this silly debate by facing the music. NO form of kibble is the best you can do for your dogs. It is all SHIT compared to a raw diet. So yall are feeding some form of OVER-PROCESSED SHIT to your dogs, and PAYING MORE TO DO IT, because you're too lazy to make a good meal for your dogs.

 

I agree 100%, raw is best. However the math I did did not find it cheap at all. Meat, beef fish are not cheap. However , i strongly disagree that all kibble is crap.

the better ones have far less processing Meat meal is highly processed as are the grains in many cases.

You use the junk food analogy. Look at it this way: A McDees Big Mac is pure junk. A Chick Filet sandwich (grilled not breaded) is fairly healthy if you don't load it with too much honey barbeque sauce.

 

I love raw and am glad I made the switch! Here is a sample of what I feed









And a few pics of some of my dogs who have been fed raw

 

Don't kid yourself, it's high in both cholesterol as well as sodium (Plain). While I can agree a chicken fillet sandwich from any fast food joint is better than their Hamburger meat is going to be for you, it would still catch up with you if it was your primary diet.

 

I respect all opinions.I think kibble has came a long ways compared to what it use to be so I don't agree its as bad as what some may think.I respect Jacks opinion and I can tell you this much ,most of Jacks dogs have to be fed a raw diet because they have skin issues.Now Jack will tell you the same thing I have heard him say it on his own forum.So I am not putting his hounds down in anyway I know people that run his blood and are very happy with what they are feeding.But none of us are going to agree on everything.And once again I am not knocking this mans hounds at all I have even considered getting some of his blood myself.I still might.

 

OK let's do the raw diet .Let's say we have 10 dogs and our meat source is leg quarters.At local grocery store prices we looking at about 8 bucks for 10 leg quarters and at 7 days a week that's 56 bucks..OK this is just your meat source this doesn't include anything else..Let's say u have a hook up at a slaughter house and we will cut that down to 4 bucks for 10 quarters..That's stll 28 bucks per week for 10 dogs in just meat alone.

 

:0047:

Thats whats up!:0041:

 

Agk get with me on the raw topic in chat, ill show you how to cut the corners....

 

Fuck it.... break the bank then I dont care.... lol

 

I did the math and my costs are higher. I live in Texas, which, as a general rule is a fairly inexpensive place to live. However my area is pretty expensive. The suburbs here are paradise (and I have lived in NY, CA, spent time in Chicago). I love it here, but prices are starting to match what you get. Raw would run me $80 plus a month for 2 dogs.

In terms of processing and quality, here is an expert review of Simply Nourish: Simply Nourish Grain Free Dog Food | Review and Rating


Rating:
Simply Nourish Grain Free Dog Food receives the Advisor*s second-highest tier rating of 4 stars.
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The Simply Nourish Grain Free product line includes four dry dog foods.
Although each appears to be designed for a specific life stage, we were unable to find AAFCO nutritional profile recommendations for these dog foods on the product*s web page.
The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

• Simply Nourish Grain Free Adult
• Simply Nourish Grain Free Puppy
• Simply Nourish Grain Free Large Breed Adult
• Simply Nourish Grain Free Adult Small Breed

Simply Nourish Grain Free Adult was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.
Simply Nourish Grain Free Adult

Dry Dog Food
Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content
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</path><g><text fill="#000000" stroke-width="0" stroke="none" font-size="12" font-family="arial" y="94.2" x="58" text-anchor="middle">30</text>
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</td><td style="border: 0px none; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; width: 116px;"><svg style="overflow: hidden;" height="116" width="116"><defs id="defs"></defs><g><circle fill="#cccccc" stroke-width="1" stroke="#333333" r="52" cy="57.5" cx="57.5"></circle><circle fill="#f7f7f7" stroke-width="2" stroke="#e0e0e0" r="46" cy="57.5" cx="57.5"></circle><text fill="#333333" stroke-width="0" stroke="none" font-size="12" font-family="arial" y="47.2" x="58" text-anchor="middle">Fat</text><text fill="#333333" stroke-width="0" stroke="none" font-size="6" font-family="arial" y="81.73746750430836" x="36.362532495691646" text-anchor="start">0</text><text fill="#333333" stroke-width="0" stroke="none" font-size="6" font-family="arial" y="81.73746750430833" x="79.63746750430838" text-anchor="end">100</text>
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</path><g><text fill="#000000" stroke-width="0" stroke="none" font-size="12" font-family="arial" y="94.2" x="58" text-anchor="middle">18</text>
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</td><td style="border: 0px none; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; width: 116px;"><svg style="overflow: hidden;" height="116" width="116"><defs id="defs"></defs><g><circle fill="#cccccc" stroke-width="1" stroke="#333333" r="52" cy="57.5" cx="57.5"></circle><circle fill="#f7f7f7" stroke-width="2" stroke="#e0e0e0" r="46" cy="57.5" cx="57.5"></circle><text fill="#333333" stroke-width="0" stroke="none" font-size="12" font-family="arial" y="47.2" x="58" text-anchor="middle">Carbs</text><text fill="#333333" stroke-width="0" stroke="none" font-size="6" font-family="arial" y="81.73746750430836" x="36.362532495691646" text-anchor="start">0</text><text fill="#333333" stroke-width="0" stroke="none" font-size="6" font-family="arial" y="81.73746750430833" x="79.63746750430838" text-anchor="end">100</text>
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</path><g><text fill="#000000" stroke-width="0" stroke="none" font-size="12" font-family="arial" y="94.2" x="58" text-anchor="middle">44</text>
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</td></tr></tbody></table>
Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, dried peas, dried potatoes, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), flaxseed, tomato pomace, natural flavors, salt, dried chicory root, dried carrots, dried spinach, dried sweet potatoes, dried pumpkin, dried blueberries, choline chloride, minerals (zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite), calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, l-ascorbyl-polyphosphate, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, vitamin D supplement, vitamin B12 supplement), dried chicken cartilage, potassium chloride, l-carnitine
Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 6.7%
Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients
<table class="dfpd-estimated-nutrient-content" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><colgroup><col><col width="70"><col width="70"><col width="70"></colgroup><tbody><tr class="dfpd-enc-header"><th colspan="4">Estimated Nutrient Content</th></tr><tr class="dfpd-enc-header-2"><th>Method</th><th width="60">Protein</th><th width="60">Fat</th><th width="60">Carbs</th></tr><tr class="dfpd-enc-data"><td class="dfpd-method">Guaranteed Analysis</td><td>27%</td><td>16%</td><td>NA</td></tr><tr class="dfpd-enc-data"><td class="dfpd-method">Dry Matter Basis</td><td>30%</td><td>18%</td><td>44%</td></tr><tr class="dfpd-enc-data"><td class="dfpd-method">Calorie Weighted Basis</td><td>26%</td><td>37%</td><td>38%</td></tr></tbody></table>
The first ingredient in this dog food is chicken. Although it is a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.
After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.
The second ingredient is chicken meal. Chicken meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.
The third ingredient is dried peas. Dried peas are a good source of carbohydrates. Plus they*re naturally rich in dietary fiber.
However, dried peas contain about 27% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the meat content of this dog food.
The fourth ingredient is dried potato, a dehydrated item usually made from the by-products of potato processing. In most cases, dried potato can contain about 10% dry matter protein which can affect our estimate of the total meat content of this recipe.
The fifth ingredient is canola oil. Unfortunately, canola can be a controversial item. That*s because some worry that canola oil is made from rapeseed, a genetically modified (GMO) raw material.
Yet others cite the fact canola oil can be a significant source of essential omega-3 fatty acids.
In any case, plant-based oils like canola are less biologically available to a dog than fish oil as a source of quality omega-3 fats.
The sixth ingredient is flaxseed, one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they*ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.
However, flaxseed contains about 19% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.
The seventh ingredient is tomato pomace. Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient, a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.
Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content, while others scorn it as an inexpensive pet food filler.
Just the same, there*s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.
After the natural flavor, we find salt (also known as sodium chloride). Salt is a common additive in many dog foods. That*s because sodium is a necessary mineral for all animals — including humans.
However, since the actual amount of salt added to this recipe isn*t disclosed on the list of ingredients, it*s impossible to judge the nutritional value of this item.
From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.
But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.
With three notable exceptions…


First, we find chicory root. Chicory is rich in inulin, a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and found in certain roots and tubers.
Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it*s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog*s digestive tract.
Next, chicken cartilage is a source of both glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate — natural substances believed to support joint health.
And lastly, the minerals listed here do not appear to be chelated. And that can make them more difficult to absorb. Non-chelated minerals are usually associated with lower quality dog foods.

Simply Nourish Grain Free Dog Food
The Bottom Line​

Judging by its ingredients alone, Simply Nourish Grain Free looks like an above-average dry dog food.
But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product*s meat content before determining a final rating.
The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 30%, a fat level of 18% and estimated carbohydrates of about 44%.
As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 30% and a mean fat level of 18%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 44% for the overall product line.
And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 59%.
Near-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.
When you consider the protein-boosting effects of the dried peas, dried potatoes and flaxseed, this looks like the profile of a kibble still containing a moderate amount of meat.
Bottom line?
Simply Nourish Grain Free is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of chicken and chicken meal as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 4 stars.
Highly recommended.
Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content.

 

Now, as Sadie pointed out, sales don't last forever. I am going to buy another bag. 1 bag lasts me 1 month, half the price of feeding raw.

The thing is, when the sale for this brand is over, a sale on another will pop up.

 

Absolutely spot on, plus 1.

 

Gee thanks....now my dogs are bugging me about having you adopt them

 

T, i understand nutrition is just a drop in the bucket when it comes to care. but, given the situation of somebody that does EVERYTHING right, from yard maintanence, to excercise, to healthcare, to socialism, the whole nine, lets say they do it all.... think about the potential longevity they WOULD have gotten from that 17-19 year old dog had they been on a whole food diet? and it really doesnt stop at just longevity..... i mean, for the pet owner i can level with your poitn. what about to the the show goer or the dog breeder? studies have shown that sperm count on a kibble fed dog doesnt hold a candle to a raw fed dog. bitches with irregular heat cycles have shown to come in season more consistantly than those fed raw.... and another thing ive noticed is when i got this older bitch out here, she was only 7 years old and her teeth looked like shit...... she went straight to raw and 3 months later its like im not even looking at the same mouth.
now like you, ive never been one to knock somebody who feeds a decent quality kibble, hell i still do from time to time.... but if i can talk somebody into going raw, which i believe is ideal.....well, i would...just because im one who likes to see folks to the absolute best they can when it somes to there dogs... or any of theyre animals at that.

 

Lol @ the cost of feeding 2 dogs. Y'all crack me up. If I were to consider raw i'd have to throw in the cost of several chest freezers and the bill to run them. Figure about half dozen might be a months worth of feed.

 

Three manufacturers make 90% of the dog food so it's really like which label do you want on this Bag ..Purina is in legal battle right now with one of the high end so called dog foods for making faults claims as to their food having no meat by products etc . I find something my dog likes that is Hi Protein / senior hi protein 27% protein works great .If you are doing a keep you go to more real meat but for just around the yard all these guys talk shit and feed the same thing with a different label ..I went to a adba show Saline MI. with one of my pups and was about to win first as the judge walked towards me I shook him off as there was a young kid about 8-10 year old who was ready to come in second ,and I pointed him his way ,I figure the kid will remember his dog winning for the rest of his life I was just there because my girl friend wanted to go so I entered.. Anyways all the people there were what did you feed your dog, how did you train it and I told them I gave it Purina puppy chow and I trained it by making it get off the couch that morning. Then brought him to the Show . I'm proud to say that same dog with all the paperwork and looks of a killer lasted about 30 seconds against my Hammer dog go figure I gave him to a girl I knew ...But feed your dog learn to watch how the dog looks to your eye adjust the food level so he stays fit and spend time with them ..