Hubbard's Gimp And Some Offsprings By Howard Heinzl

sire- cunningham's boxer http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/publi...hp?dog_id=80405


dam- tudor's goldie http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/publi...php?dog_id=1485

"the above is the correct breeding of hubbard's gimp. earl tudor bred him to his dam goldie and after winning several matches with her, he gave her to frank jordan, who intended breeding her to bruce's jerry, but he was able to purchase a good son of jerry's called cunningham's boxer, from lyerlas and cunningham of panama, illinois. frank quit the dog business after that and gave his dogs to joe corvino.
bruce's turk was later tudor's turk, so when i sent dibo to earl, i was just sending him back his own stock. dibo wouldn't start but i bred him to my best Bitch dutchess anyway and also to white rock's dam dinah. i knew and liked his four grand parents. dibo was actually bred by w.d. smith of phoenix and he was whelped on march 21, 1951. his dam bambi wasn't the Pit dog that others i have burried along side her were, but besides dibo, she produced some other good ones including o'neal's silky and palmer's adolph who beat the whino dog in chicago. she was also the dam of white rock's dam dinah. i bred bambi to her son, dibo's litter brother arizona pete and got tudor's minnie and earl bred minnie to dibo and got boudreaux's blind billy, which is as close to the old feeley Strain of dogs you can get today. earl got some outstanding dogswhen he bred dibo to an Outcross, scatter bred Bitch, decordova's Red lady, later gordon's Red lady. she did have 2 feeley dogs back in the bottom corner of her pedigree through clause's kito the rest was some of john trice breeding. they produced dogs like tudor's spike and jeff and crenshaw's buck."

 

links didnt work.

 

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=80405

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=1485

 

This is the kind of stuff I enjoy reading.

 

more reading perhaps

Dibo, not only was a great dog in his own right, but he became the most significant stud dog in modern pit dog history. His son White Rock was always mentioned by the dog men who saw him in action as one of the three best dogs ever seen. This dog went to Cuba (White Rock), which was a real pit dog haven before the Castro era, and, for that reason, we don’t see him in our dogs’ ancestry. Other sons which we do see in our dogs’ pedigree are Tudors Spike and Tudors Jeff, not to mention countless others.
Before Dibo, of course, were his progenitors. It is interesting to note that nearly all of the dogs we talked of are in Dibo’s background. That is, there are dogs of the Old Family Red Nose strain, Lightner dogs, and so forth. If we go back far enough, we find Galvins Pup, too. Dobo’s grandsire, Corvinos Gimp, was a well known dog which had won matches primarily on gameness. Similarly, his son, Bounce (also known as Bouncer), was known primarily as a game dog, and both of these animals were owned and campaigned by S.W.Hubbard. Hubbard owned a night club which was one of the popular night spots in Phoenix, and he was known as “Whiz” to his friends, but this was before that word had any ribald connotations. The great breeder Howard Heinzl owned Bambi, Dibo’s dam, but, strangely enough, neither Hubbard nor Heinzl bred Dibo. This was accomplished by a rank novice named Smith, and it was a matter of a neophyte getting hold of some well bred dogs, and he happened to make a breeding which really clicked. Dibo was a slow starting dog, still not ready to fire up when he was three years old. Earl Tudor got him from Heinzl, and the dog eventually started and was a talented pit dog. His real fame, though, came as a producer. A high percentage of his offspring seemed to have bone breaking ability, as well as deep gameness. A dog can become famous from producing just one famous dog, but Dibo produced countless dogs which not only were premier performers in the pit, but they went on to sire great dogs themselves.
Not all the dogs represented are readily found in the pedigrees of dogs, even in the long version of the pedigrees. Andersons Trouble, for example, was a great pit dog and won over some of the very best in his day. However, he was Buddy Anderson’s first Bulldog, and he had gotten him out of the dog pound. Fabulous as he was, people were afraid to breed to him because they were unsure of the quality of his ancestry. The funny part was that Buddy Anderson was a wealthy man and could have afforded the best pit dogs. It was mere fluke that he happened to get Trouble out of the pound., and the dog turned out so well for him. He beat some of the best of that time, but Saddler eventually collected a forfeit from him, as Buddy suspected he didn’t have a chance of winning against such a renowned dog man who had seen Trouble perform several times.
It has already been mentioned that White Rock went to Cuba, and so very few breedings were made with him. Another reason was that the dog men of that time were real cranks on gameness, and White Rock never had to show any because of his fabulous talent. It is interesting to note that the dog was raised as a house pet and had been trained to do parlor tricks. Earl Tudor felt that his background in that regard may have been part of the secret of his success, as he considered hand raised dogs to have an advantage over kennel dogs, and I think he was absolutely correct.
A dog which appears in the pedigree of nearly every modern dog is Tudors Spike. Along with White Rock and Jeff, he was considered one of Dibo’s greatest sons; hence, he was bred with great regularity.
Although males tend to predominate because they are easier to condition and work with because there is not the heat cycle to worry about, the females should not be forgotten. One point worth noting is that the pit dog fraternity has always had a terminology all of its own, and it is interesting to note that unlike show dog people, pit dog men didn’t often use the term “bitch” for their females. Usually, simply “female” or “gyp” is the preferred term. One of the great ones which is in nearly every pedigree was Carvers Black Widow. She was such a perfect specimen in terms of talent and gameness that dog men from Earl Tudor to Maurice Carver to Gaboon Trahan vied to utilize her as a brood bitch. Hence, most of our modern dogs have her some place in their ancestry.
Even at the mid-century mark, Bloodlines Journal was printing match reports. However, in 1953, I. Q. Kennedy began putting out a journal which he called “Pit Dogs.” This put a heavy emphasis on match reports and even contained action pictures on the cover and inside. Some of the old-time dog men were quite ambivalent about such stark exposure. I well recall Bob O’Neal and Bob Hemphill talking with Kennedy about toning things down a bit. They were concerned that the pictures would look worse to the general public than the bouts actually were. Kennedy was quite young and tall enough to be a basketball player, but he was quite congenial and respectful of older gentlemen. The next issue that came out involved a name change of the magazine to “Your Friend and Mine,” and shortly thereafter Pete Sparks took over putting out the magazine.
Although the magazine helped bring heat onto the pit dog game, it also preserved the memory of good dogs. Today there are at least four journals published for that purpose. Certainly, the dogs deserve to be remembered, but it is something of a balancing act to be sure that the good on one hand doesn’t outweigh the bad on the other, as the magazines, regardless of precautions taken, end up in the wrong hands. The irony is that the act of giving the dogs proper recognition can risk the very existence of the breed. The only consolation is that this is a problem which has always been with us.

 

So when we look at the ancestry of HUBBARD'S GIMP is it right to say he's a Feeley, Henry, Shipley, Colby dog?

 

just thought i would point out a few things one is goldie was bred before she was even matched and dibo was bred based on his grandparents also even heinzl knew the breeding of blind billy was correct. these are things to think about when people think that these guys only bred proven dogs because it just aint true

 

Good point boze but look who where talking about , those where seasoned dogmen and new there dogs and the dogs behind them . Not just breeding two dos . But good point its always has been done ..

 

i know preme, its just funny how people on the internet get all hung up on cur this cur that proven unproven to young bullshit when the fact is all the oldtimers knew one thing a dog can produce or it cant i aint saying breed dogs that quit but it has no bearing whatsoever on there production. i think it ties in nicely with the thread highly ranked curs, obviousl;y those guys knew something we did not. i mean why would they breed to those dogs when they had access to so many other good dogs. i believe there was a reason behind it. like someone mentioned earlier the dogs behind bandit were good solid game dogs, he had the genes to back up his producing that is why i think it is so iomportant to know the dogs in your stud dogs pedigree.

 

Really nice thread.I love this old history.Boze I agree with what you said.Look some of these old timers knew the blood behind the dog that wouldn't start ,or was young that wasn't matched yet.They took a chance betting on the blood behind the dog.THIS IS WHY SOME ARE CONSIDERED GREAT BREEDERS.Some have said you don't breed a untested dog.Well when Tudor,Heinzl,and Carver have produce great dogs from breedings they have made from cold dogs or dogs that have quit.Thank God they knew something about the dogs they bred or we wouldn't have some of the bloodlines we do.

 

I noticed that he also knew Blind Billy to be bred as Boudreaux papered him. Wonder if Mayfield ever told him his wrong. Lol

 

Good read...no doubt it's veracity will be challenged.

 

Il have a big sirprize in a couple of days about breeding cold dogs(on the cold dog topic). as you know i have been rediculed resendly. il be sirprized how the necst man in line who bred to cold bitches wil as wel... and for the record HE sais the same as i do . wich was that the cold bitches he bred to produced better then his game dogs..

 

Oh boy, We can't wait! :lol:

 

oh yes,,, tdk shut dowm limeys suprise,,, lets guess what it might have been???
Im going to say that he was gonna break the news on banjos mamma...

 

Earl Tudor told me Bambi who was Dibo's dam was a cold bitch. I do not recall how many good dogs she produced but Dibo her son created one of the best bloodlines ever. Earl Tudor personally said to me. Worry how your bitch is bred and if she is out of good dogs breed her to a good winning game pitdog. He didn't think it mattered if they were cold as long as they were out of good dogs. Yet it worries me some to breed a cold bitch and I do like a good game bitch better and have more faith in her producing better. Randy Fox

 

some people that would breed a cold bitch would never dream of breeding one that stopped. it seems a bit like double standards to me.

 

Thanks for the read Mr.Fox...