Labor pause ???---Back from vet and pictures

So sorry they did not make it.

 

Sorry you didn't even get one pup out of the batch...but you did your best, and like the rest of the group said, if God wants them, it's their time.

 

you know if this was some newb on here saying they bred their dog on it's first heat they'd be taking all kinds of shit right now.

 

You're right!!!

 

Something like that. The crash blood which is a son of Ch. Johnny Jr. is gone. There are a few offsprings left behind which we have 1 and access to 1. This the reason for the preservation breeding. Thanks ABK for the explanation.

 

Actually I've heard breeding on a bitch's first heat has pros and cons. It supposedly widens the birth canal and hardens the bones and helps with future labors. I read somewhere that Floyd bred Eli to Spook on first heat with that theory. Of course there will be labor problems and whether or not the bitch is ready for motherhood. But sorry for your loss MM can't believe no one made it
=(

 

So sorry bout your trouble. After that big of a break, it isnt good. Like Rock said, it is good to have some oxy on hand when whelping, for just this situation. Thing is, many times people who have had the stuff have overused it. They have used it to bring in labor, like the drip on a human. I ONLY use it when something like this occurs, and on my last litter, I was close to using it,well the last two, as both whelpings lasted too long in my opinion, but about the time I'd think of using it, here would come another one.

About the Colostrum from mama, it only comes the first 24 hours, so after that, no more imunity comes from mama. I used to think the same thing, but if you are observant, you can see the difference from that and the milk.
I like the tube feeding better also, untill it begins to gag them, then I go to a bottle.

YIS
Once again, I am so sorry for your loss!!

 

There are a few pros to doing so, sometimes they outweigh the negatives. Breeding a dog on first heat simply because you can't for pups to sell, is going to get you trashed. Breeding any dog for pups to sell, is going to get you trashed, 15 months old, or 5 years old.

 

I have seen many bitches bred on their first heat, and many I have seen not bred till their 3rd heat, and I have never noticed that waiting has any effect whatsoever upon something like this happening. As a matter of fact I just wont say what I have seen, and this is against my own practice(meaning I DO NOT normally breed on the 1st heat, understand!) that bitches bred on their first heat turn into great brood bitches.
As to the bitch eating the pups, many things can cause this. If the bitch gets nervous, it can make her flip out, I have had bitches that produced well, yet if the pups were handled within (aproximately) the first two weeks, they get ate. Of course a bitch will eat a dead pup, unless she isnt a good brood bitch who doesnt clean up well. And then you do have them that simply seem to not want to pass on their genes. At one time I had Boa's, and to feed them I bred hampster's to feed them. Well, My "stud" hampster had a bowl of food, and a bowl of vitamins, and he made it a habit to make his meals off of the vitamins. Well, this hampster swole up. I mean he was Arnald Swartza-hampster!! He had baceps and all!! Well, after this happened, first time I bred him, he bred the rat, and the next thing I knew, he was tearing that she hampster into pieces, literally!!, Next time, after they bred, I seperated them, well, he broke out of the cage he was in(an aquarium w/a lid) and broke into the other cage and killed the rat-es again!! Next time, after breeding, I put a big dictionary on the cage. Well, the rat-lets were born this time, but one night, Arnald broke out and was in there killing the babies, it looked like a horror movie!! He simply did not want to pass his jeans on!!(Hope that made you laugh!) What happened to him? Well, he excaped one night, and probably lived out the rest of his life in the walls of that house. Every once in a while we'd hear him!!

 

Lethal:

It was Jerry Clemmons who owned Spook & bred her to Eli. I think Spook was 9 mos old at the time & the reason Jerry bred her that young was not given.

And it was Wildside kennels who stated they thought breeding a bitch on her 1st heat widened the bird canal & helped form the pelvic bones.

Not trying to being a jerk, I just wanted to throw that out there, lest Mr. B get blamed for something he did not do.

 

IMO, there's no good reason to breed a dog on her first heat. 6 months isn't that much longer to wait & if the stud's livelihood is in question, well get seme semen & freeze it.

As for the whole "a bitch delivering pups on her 1st heat will widen the pelvic bones for later on" statement, well I've investigated this from a medical standpoint & I have several problems with it. First off, natural development & allowing the bitch time to fully mature will result in a proper pelivic structure. Let's face it....us females were born to give birth. That's what our bodies are desgined to do & it goes for every animal out there. And for those unfamiliar with they actual phsyics of birthing, pregnancy hormones actually affect the pelvic structure as their release causes the pelvis to widen on it's on to prepare for childbirth. (trust me, I know because it freakin hurts & think your bones are separating.....ugh) However, after the pups are born, the pelivs resumes it's natural shape as does the uterus inside.

So maybe the statement sounds good to someone who's unfamiliar with the canine body, but it really doesn't mean too much.

 

well thanks mia! i'm glad i'm not the only one who was smart enough to think of that. not meant to offend here but it kinda pisses me off that since it was a member that had been around a few months and had a bunch of posts everybody seemed to think this was "ok" which is why i posted earlier that if some newb did this they would be getting trashed right now. i can't think of a single reason not to extract the semen and freeze it other than they didn't want to put out the money to do it. well, i hope all those dead puppies taught everybody the danger of breeding a dog that young! we should keep our values and honesty here even if it is someone who you like and respect. breeding the dog that young was WRONG!

 

Sorry about that. This is word of mouth information given to me I thought I'd toss out there. Not like I'm a breeder anyway so my two cents on this topic isn't even worth 2 cents ;p.

 

Lethal - You're so crazy! :p

As for her breeding a dog that young - a lot experinced of ppl do it b/c it was something respected breeders did. As mentioned before, Jerry Clemmons did it. Wildside Kennels did &/or does it. And I highly doubt they are the only two who do it.

I think the reason no one gave MM any flak b/c she appeared to be an experinced breeder who knew what she was doing & was breeding for the betterment of her yard. She did nothing that past "greats" in the breed have done before her. I mean, how many posts have you seen downing Mr. Clemmons or questioning his ethics as a breeder for doing the breeding that produced Eli Jr., Bullyson & Brendy?? None that I have ever seen.

Most newbs who breed on the first heat on the other hand, have no idea what they are doing & breed willy nilly for the $$$.

That's all I can figure.

 

Thanks ABK. I do know exactly what I am doing and I did do it for a reason. None of the pups were for sale. I have a registered kennel and I don't breed for money. I BREED TO BETTER MY YARD. For those who can't understand that I don't care. I didn't post to have people put me down. ABK understood exactly what was going on. He didn't need me to explain myself. To you boogiemanblood your statements are wrong and should have never been said. YOU don't know what you are talking about. I put alot of money into this. MONEY is no object to me. You are the one who assumed you knew me and what I was doing. As far as your statements bout the dead pups maybe you should keep your thoughts to yourself. You don't know how we feel and are still mourning over those pups. I have bred before and have had other problems that I was able to fix this was just something I haven't personally had to deal with. As for a newbie I am not I have been in the APBT's for a while now and you don't see me being a backyard breeder. I don't have pups all the time I did this breeding for a reason. I would appreciate if someone would please close this thread as I am starting to get very upset as I continue to read this. Ignorant people make me mad. Again thanks ABK and rep points to you. :mad:

 

well with all that experience and all that money seems like you coulda waited and froze the semen if you were in fear of losing your stud. i didn't say any disrespectful and i NEVER called you a newbie. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! and if you wanna start calling names (ignorant) well all i can say is........we could if you really wanted to but i didn't so grow up. as far as keeping my thoughts to myself.........it's a PUBLIC forum. so don't post what you don't want talked about! you very easily could have posted and left out the part about the first heat cyclye but you chose not to. so that's not my fault. once again, i said in my post, NO DISRESPECT INTENDED, if i can't have an opinion it defeats the purpose of a forum now doesn't it! so go read what i said again and get off your high horse! :rolleyes:

edit: oh and i never called you a byb either.......don't have a clue where you got that one either. next time you want to throw out a rant when your mad like i said please at least make sure the facts are straight

<!-- / message --> <!-- controls -->edit again: honestly i don't see a thing wrong with any of this and your accusations are baseless.........OP......"well thanks mia! i'm glad i'm not the only one who was smart enough to think of that. not meant to offend here but it kinda pisses me off that since it was a member that had been around a few months and had a bunch of posts everybody seemed to think this was "ok" which is why i posted earlier that if some newb did this they would be getting trashed right now. i can't think of a single reason not to extract the semen and freeze it other than they didn't want to put out the money to do it. well, i hope all those dead puppies taught everybody the danger of breeding a dog that young! we should keep our values and honesty here even if it is someone who you like and respect. breeding the dog that young was WRONG!"

 

Please Close This Thread I Will Not Argue. I Said All I Have To Say.

 

why close the thread you should give anyone who wants to voice their opinion a chance to do so. it should remain open.

 

C'mon...can we stop beating this DEAD HORSE.....the whole situation was tragic...I think both views have been fairly represented.....

 

Boogie, you may see nothing wrong with your response and some others may agree, but for someone who just lost an entire litter that they were looking forward to, your post was unnecessary.

IMO, Mickey didn't get bashed because people knew the background of the breeding, why it was done and knew she wasn't a newbie with two pups that she wanted to make a quick buck off of. If that weren't the reason, most posters probably assumed losing a litter would have been traumatizing enough without having to hear that they messed up and understood that nothing would come of them pointing out her "mistake" (if you believe it is one) now.

Mickey knew the bitch was young, but she took her chances and did what she thought was BEST for HER yard (I'll repeat HER yard). What point are you trying to make by rubbing lost pups in her face?

It's classless and shows very poor taste.