Muscle Physiology and Feeding the Performance/Working Dog

Your ignorance of copy and paste means your now debating your own nonsense with yourself.
Your ignorance of science means you cant distinguish between observer and observed, or subjective or objective.
Have another go on topic, its your turn to share o stevens keep info and your own understanding of the topic.

 

thanks for sharing slim12, in the flirt pole extract o stevens mentions types of carb powder alongside the work.
what sort of percentage for carbs were you using back in the day and did the percentage and type alter over the duration of the keep?

youve explained your use of virtually no carbs now in the summer period and its effects,get to keep quicker, through keep quicker, and run cooler, are you stating you are able to operate at high intensity for as good or better with out the carb use now?

 

All of yawl have some good points even if some of yawl are just copying and pasting lol.

Its the simple logic of supply and demand, if the demands are met its all good.

 

thanks slim12,a lot of useful information,it appears the utilizations of carbs is limited by the type of strength and energy system being developed and the duration of the keep, which is limited by staleness.

In utilizing the three sciences of the sprinter weight puller and sled dog, do you utilize lower intensity higher volume and higher intensity lower volume in the keep now? such as maximum strength and power work, and aerobic endurance work? these being the foundation of all
other types of strength and endurance.

on the issue of keep duration ,did you alter the loading pattern, cycle of work, and exercise stimulus to try stave off staleness and increase work capacity beyond 6wks back in the day?

on the issue of carbs, did you alter the type of strength to max strength and power, and energy system to anaerobic alactic to utilize the higher carbs back in the day?

 

well herewe go agian tigerlines the know it all who knows nothing and seems to know thta i know notihng even though i havent said anything , so how arogant can you get , still a fool no change , and no dogs either , keep milking others as you always do .

 

...dik...still chaseing people around this site...phssst....sad.....you could'nt feed a goldfish right...simpo....

 

thanks for the info slim12,
i fully understand the combining of the types of strength and energy systems and to run off fat in a limited time keep.
The utilization of fat in the conditioning schedule is clear, but the utilization of carbs and the duration of the keep isnt.

Do you see no benefit in trying to extend the total duration of the work schedule(not necessarily the peaking process)?
given that greater work capacity is the product of greater toleration of higher volume and load over time.

Also do you see no benefits in developing max strength and power(no endurance element) in the work cycle?
given that greater physiological efficiency in and by the types of strength required at high intensity is the product of their development.

I ask because the first questions impacts the second, the use of carbs, and utilization of the methodology of the sprinter, weight puller, sled dog, to the fullest degree possible in conditioning for greater work capacity, and physiological efficiency in high intensity work.

 

Thanks for the reply slim12, i understand your concerns,i agree muscular endurance is far more important than max strength in final performance.

As stated previously, muscular endurance of an explosive nature (or power endurance),and muscular endurance of a medium and long nature are the limiting factors to performance.But max strength plays the determinant role in the type of specific strength desired.Both strength x speed(power) and muscular endurance are a product of max strength and neither can reach high levels without high levels of it.It increases fiber size resulting in fewer fibers and a smaller number of motor units needed to perform the task,its improvement results in strength reserves critical in increasing the muscles capacity to produce work more effectively to overcome resistance.It increases inter and intra muscular coordination and physiological efficiency IN & BY the types of strength desired in final performance, resulting in greater work capacity at high intensity and increased physiological efficiency.

On the issue of max strength usually meaning more muscle and oxygen.
Muscle size depends greatly on the methodology and duration used,such as hypertrophy and bodybuilding,sub max loads, lower muscle tension, reps to exhaustion, excess protein and calories etc.
Max strength training methodology uses high loads, high muscle tension, CNS stimulation and adaptation,FT motor unit recruitment,absence of exhaustion etc. It mainly increases muscle density and tone not hypertrophy, and if the correct methodology is used max strength improvement with insignificant gains in muscle mass will be the result.

The issue of carbs isnt so much its use in long duration work but in max strength and power development and fueling the anaerobic system that supports them.

The goal isnt to develop max strength continuously or over a long duration but to build it, then maintain it while converting it to the specific strength desired.First into muscular endurance and power, then converting the power into power endurance alongside muscular endurance.

 

thanks for the reply slim12, ive enjoyed the discussion, if you disagree, no problem.
science does cover desire and gamedogs, it covers everything, nothing can suspend the laws of the universe not even god least of all a dog and im a believer in the risen christ.
Desire is pleasure given duration by thought, and pleasure is the product of memory.Gameness is the product of stubbornness and drive, projected by thought in action.Gameness is never a bad thing unless their is an absence of intelligence.

On max strength,you are correct, maxing out for duration will produce muscle,but only in the presence of exhaustion excess protein and excess calories.But it will produce more than that,it will produce fatigue over training and staleness in a matter of weeks.Its the methodology of decades past bodybuilding of American origin when weight lifting as a sport was part of it. it never won a strength performance title of merit in the entire existence of it use. Its a function of load and methodology used, what ever type of strength you try to develop,from muscular endurance to power, using such methodology will lead to the same results,short term limited adaption, fatigue, over training and staleness. Limiting the progress and its duration to weeks.Its exacerbated my using the same exercises ,a flat loading pattern,and the progressive overload principle, with no variation in load or volume except increase. If you dont understand what your doing it will produce only inferior adaption and limit capacity, at best.
Luckily that isnt what max strength is,how its trained or its function, and no method is or has ever produced superior result in performance compared to it.It cannot lead to bulk becaUse its volume is too low, and the duration of its use in context is far too short.

I have to disagree with your statement with the end goal being able to go all out for long periods of time.To me the end goal is is to be able to use the minimum to produce the maximum for however long it takes. thats physiological efficiency and increased work capacity at every effort level.

Max strength training has nothing to do with maxing out for duration.It simply refers to the max load you can tolerate for 1 rep. A measure all other work will be based off as a percentage of load, including body weight. The greater the strength reserve, the lower the intensity of the load when it comes to conversion or competition.It produces exactly the opposite of using more fuel AT EVERY EFFORT LEVEL physiologically and psychologically.For the reasons i explained in a previous post.Its the reason why it is used from sprinters to ultra endurance athletes of 8hrs+ duration, on land or in water, and has helped break records in them where resistance over 30% of max has to be overcome.
Their are many ways to understand it use and application, from the original russian strength manuals to louie simmons to tudor bompa to prilepins chart etc.

You will have to explain why max strength training is detrimental to the process, as ive explained why its the exact opposite and addressed the points youve made.A keep only has two functions, to condition a dog and to peak it.The only concept that max strength is miles apart from is the belief a short duration of limited work is all an athlete is capable of, or needs to peak.

 

thanks slim12,i havent stated any abstractions based on humans with no relevancy to gamedogs.No dog will hook its self to mill or sled and pull its self to death, or have any desire to do so.I dont know any humans who desire to condition this way either or any science.Humans have died giving their last breath fighting with full awareness of their fate through out history and always will.Game dogs arent different their a simple source of amusement, not the mystery of the universe.

Personal experience can never trump science, its a categorical impossibility, explain how personal experience trumps the scientific method of observation measurement record analysis hypothesis and projection?I dont know what running a dog into the ground has to do with max strength/power/ feeding carbs, you will have to explain that one to me,you will also have to explain to me why measuring max strength is no use because a dog need to rest?On the art of conditioning how do you know what is enough and when? the secret of adaption in conditioning is super compensation.

You state you dont doubt or argue with science, even when you think personal proven success differs from it,the point is do you utilize science or ignore it?What personal proven success in developing max strength and power, and fueling them differs from science? science is truth in reality in the moment, what personal proven success differs from this?You state their is nothing scientific out their in feeding the game dog, their not a mystery and their is a ton of science out their, it has three energy systems, they are fueled exactly the same in all dogs, strength is a function of the energy systems.On the differences in a twins bite and dogs that quit and scratch,their not a mystery, its pleasure.

On the end not being defined till the show, of course the end is defined or you couldnt pick a winner or loser,its a contest of winner and loser in a contest of gameness, gameness is a measure of intensity and duration.In work capacity thats volume and load. a dog has only 3 energy systems,one only lasts for ten seconds, so it isnt dominant, the other two obviously are. Strength is a function of them.where is the mystery? Dead game defines gameness in a game dog,it needs the greatest work capacity it can achieve restricted only by its genetic potential, it doesnt matter if you win or lose except to a gambler, the objective is to produce a dead game dog via conditioning.

 

Thanks slim12,to answer your first paragraph,its not an art its a science and their is no such thing as a ten minute energy system.I thought you stated you have a good understanding of the 3 energy states?

To answer your second paragraph,im not a scientist no more than einstein was a time traveler.Measurements arent made "for" science,and scientists arent interested in dog matching.You dont need to stop a dog match to know what optimal food it needs through out all stages of combat, beyond the bleeding obvious, its simple carbs.

To answer your third paragraph,super and compensation are the product of the English language, their simple words not hard to understand,its a verifiable proven phenomenon of adaption(what do you imagine carb loading is? or muscle growth?).I dont own any sciences to gather up.As for your 8 wk test with my idea of a peak according to you own suggestion i will use my self instead of a dog.I gather up all my science books because i must have lots of science books to use words like super compensation obviously,i start the schedule and i scratch my head for ten seconds every day for a week while baffling myself with the mystery of earthly gameness.I add ten seconds a week for 8 weeks,peaking at 80seconds while watching myself in the mirror (to know what im looking at).I rest for 3 days and attempt to scratch my head for 5min and 20seconds while baffling my self of the mystery of earthly gameness, (while watching in the mirror) and complete the task with ease. If i had money on it, would i be a wealthy gambler with understanding or just a baffled one with a sore head?

On your last paragraph,i might not have an earthly understanding of gameness to compare to you, but i will explain what mine is and where it comes form if your prepared to do the same? This is where mine comes from and what it is. It comes from the will to endure of man, his role and place in the universe. His understanding of the eternal(god) and the gamest man who ever lived(Jesus Christ). It comes from a near thousand year history of my fellow country men baiting dogs to the death for their own amusement as a reflection of their own existence, when all anyone had was a will to endure, his understanding of the eternal, and a very short brutal violent unfair existence. It comes from the midlands (where i was bred) where bull baiting and dog fighting where obsessions unlike anywhere else on earth.It comes personally competing in Boxing and Muay Thai ,and conditioning for them for decades, it comes having owning dogs that were worthy of a being known as a fighting dog for a fighting man, and conditioning them for decades.My understanding is a simple top down process as i have always been taught ,where the pit bull&terrier originates, as do its custom and tradition, from the last stronghold for them in Britain.It goes in this order,god, man, dog, chicken.
No man has anything to learn about gameness bottom up from a dog unless he is a coward himself.Now where does your incomparable worldly understanding come from and what is it?

As for your final point you misunderstand what is stated,i stated dead game is the definition of gameness in a game dog, (as it is in man) and that the goal of conditioning is to produce a dead game dog(as it is in man).
Dead game means extreme and accurate gameness up to the last breath in a dog(as it does in man) NOT simply a dog that dies in its effort.A living dog can be as dead game as its ancestors.I know this as my fellow countrymen invented the term along with the game dog, its custom and tradition.The body follows the will, not the other way round, and the conditioning process is desgined to allow the will to endure. No one stated conditioning determines any genetic limit.

 

Thanks slim12, yes in the past conditioners had to be creative out of necessity,and still do, but the more science is known, understood and utilized, the less necessity for creativities use. Which is why i disagree with your statement that art is far more important to success than science, to me its clearly the other way round.

As for art knowing when to stop a dog and letting the dog tell you when it has hit the optimal mark. That maybe how art does it but science understands when to stop a dog what the optimal mark is , when to hit it and why, by using science and the scientific method.
Its better to take one step back to take two steps forward in conditioning and promote super compensation.What variables cripple science with a dog? Its not string theory or the mystery of the universe.

As for who a person would choose to shape their dog and decide which dogs to breed.Their comparisons of apples and oranges,it would be wiser to utilize both for different reasons.