Opinions on SBT/APBT

I have a serious interest on the rocks. Since you have owned both breeds and have been breeding staffs for a long time would you mind telling me how they compare. Strengths and weaknesses in both breeds and how would you compare them. I'm not talking of show bred staffs but of course staffs from serious working lines versus apbt.

 

Very good question there !!!! Looking forward to the answers here

 

Your answer was in an old Ed Reid video........ two black dogs in the box in contracted match in the late 70s. Needless to say the SBT showed game but didnt have the leverage to punish due to his frame. He was favouring an ear hold which he couldnt get and was on the bottom most of the time. But the SBT was game bred and in good shape. He would have beaten ANY SBT today. Most SBT wont last a good keep let alone take the punishment his dog did.

yis

 

so you classing all staffs with the one in an old ed reid video lol

 

At matches from 38-44 lbs the SBT lost nearly all the time in 70s. This was an era when SBT were imported into US for matching. They had some admirers.... Pete Sparks was one. They weren't up to the job. Mainly game plugs. Some were crossed in some stock. But this experiment didn't bare fruit. But this was a time when there were game bred SBT families on the ground which were shown. Today it hardly the same.

 

I could answer this by writing a thousand pages and it would still not be a good answer. It is all generalisations. So take what I write with a pinch of salt please.

The biggest difference is that the APBT is much more a refined animal, with more bloodlines. Therefor you can pretty much find any type of dog that you like, whatever you prefer is out there. The APBT world is like going to a big super market!

The proper working Stafford lines are pretty much on the verge of extinction, there are hardly any lines to speak of anymore! Most good dogs are related to each other. This makes it harder to breed and maintain them. You pretty much have to run with what you got.

To make a proper comparison between them on an individual base is hard. Anyone living with both breeds will see the difference and the similarities. There are big differences between various APBT lines too. The Staffs are of course no world beaters, but neither is a majority of the APBTs.

The Staffs are generally speaking much easier to keep in my humble opinion, but again there are exceptions to this rule. For some people an advantage with the Staffs is that they are not as refined, so they are an easier “all around” breed that you can use for various things. I do not find them as openly dog aggressive as the APBT. If they get provoked they will act, but most of them do not start to scream when they see another dog in the distance.

 

Of course they were not up to the job. They had been specifically bred for that task for a decade or less before the APBT came. Most were still kept for drawing badgers! They were in an environment that could not compare to the US when it came to competition or breeding. In the 1970´s the USA had its peak when it came to the gamedog!

Besides, you get nothing for free when conditioning many Staffs! The conditioner needs to know exactly what he is doing. With an APBT even a mediocre conditioner will get a better result. I have seen several pictures of Staffs campaigned in the time frame you are referring too and it was appalling!

Many APBTs is naturally bigger on their ideal weight compared to the Staffs, some will probably argue with me on this and probably not understand what I am saying due to lack of experience. But any experienced conditioner will understand what I try to get across. This was also a bit what I was trying to put across earlier! Bigger Staffs will even have a bigger drawback with their weight, according to my experience.

On the part of game plugs, I cannot argue I was not there! But I will argue that the few well-kept Staffs of today probably are better than those in the 1970´s. The problem today is the lack of various blood lines, which puts everything on a slippery slope as far as I am concerned. In 20 years there will be good APBTs around, but we cannot be sure there are any well-kept Staffs left.

 

good stafs are a rare thing as said above,getting one with the right ability,body structure,,etc'etc...ya can see the difference in staff.s say in the 40's-50;s..they looked more like a small pit-dog..over here the conformation shows reduced them more over the years...in saying that there is a few good one's about....also there was a few very good ones in the late 80's...early 90's..when ya start breeding for one thing,ya can ease'ly lose another thing....there was a few good Kc reg staf's in the feild[]+show...dohh rare...............

 

PS;on-t-rock's...i get wat ur saying...but that's if your trying to do a keep on kc dog,,were there is some that are able for it..we all seen some pit's who don't like to/r/can't/wo'nt work....as for game plugs been sent across the water it was been done for years..some might start thinking what's them unknown's on there ped's...??????????????????????????

 

Thanks for your answer

 

I once heard the phrase, there's a difference between being fit and being healthy. That's always stuck with me. For instance, the 50 year old person who walks for exercise and eats "good" food may be healthier than the 30 year old gym guy who is pumping iron and doing intense cardio, but eats junk, drinks and smokes. He may be visibly in better shape and more fit, but not as healthy.

And there are degrees. Who is more fit? Who is in better shape? It all comes down to how you define it. Minnesota running back Adrian Peterson is in obviously good shape (genetics plays a huge role) and is fitter than the average person. Is he healthy? Maybe.

I don't think the physical shape of many top marathon runners is anything to write home about. Are they fit, yes. Healthy, maybe.

Top level crossfit competitors display excellent shape and fitness. Again, health? You really don't know anyone's genetic predisposition or their diet and lifestyle.

And finally, MMA fighters. Many will not display the physical shape of Adrian Peterson, but they are in shape and fit for the job they are in. They are in a health hazardous profession.

My conformation Staffy gets plenty of free time in the back yard. I alternate on different days with specific exercises. Some days she gets 25 minutes of tennis ball chasing - sprints. Other days I jog her for 25 minutes on an outdoor trail. Other days I walk her on pavement with a harness and let her pull.

This past weekend, I let her run a 600 yd lure course. She smoked the course and ran hard the whole way. The next day she ran it again - just flew. Brought her back an hour later and she did it again - ran hard the entire course. Fit, yes, in shape, yes. Healthy - most likely. Conditioned in terms of a keep - no, not even close. But compared to most pets, well conditioned.

 

Not really understanding the point you are trying to make here

 

I meant here.

 

I second that, totally confused me.

 

The "bit" you was "trying to put across earlier" was in regards to a line you was breeding into whos foundations where in dogs who where campaigned and had success at around 35-40lb...the point i was making...that you didint understand with your obvious lack of experience with that line...is that for them Staff's that was their natural weight!...also your comments about them dogs not reacting around other dogs sounds odd to me to...the American dogs have set the standard...and thats where the modern Stafford should look to compete...i would cast serious doubts over the quality of oppositon at 22-25lb.

Now theres been no name calling on this thread from me (unlike your last post aimed at me)...all i have done is debate the infomation posted on the thread... so if you are to continue to delete my posts...then simply just delete me...

 

otr ..... is there work for 22-25lb ? ... years ago i bought 2 from LHK which they couldnt get work for and they were 28 / 29 lb ...i also had stuff myself which were 29 and 30lb and found it difficult to get work for them ?? ... things have maybe changed now ??

 

Your post was deleted because it did not contribute at all to the topic about APBT/Staffs. Here you at least touch the subject, if only a bit. Everyone´s responsibility is to compete with their dogs at the absolute best weight they can, this is the whole idea.

The experience I have based on over ten years with the Staffs, and by that I mean ten years of actively breeding and evaluating them; has showed me beyond any reasonable doubt that the Staffs generally are better below 35! So I see it as my responsibility to be there regardless of accessible opponents! It would be irresponsible towards the dogs to do it any other way! Perhaps this is the reason the Staffs has such a poor reputation today, people tried to compete at weights were they were not at their best.

Still you have no knowledge what so ever about our blood! You took one post, and connected with another post made a long time ago! From that you made the conclusion that you knew exactly what I was up to. Well think again! With the size of a yard like mine, one dog says nothing more than one individual player in a football team.

Anyway, this is a bit off topic- this debate is about the Staffs and the APBT! Their similarities and difference, their pros and cons. The debate about the APBT vs the Staff has already been covered more than once on this board. I would be very interested to hear about your experience regarding Staffs and APBTs.

 

if it is the variation in blood that makes the apbt great because of the traits u can breed out of lines surely narrowing down the weight and size of the Stafford to suit an individual will be no beniefit to the breed that has lack of strong blood lines now never mind reducing it and finding dogs that work and come in at a certain weight or height.the thing that effects the Stafford the most is the lack of trustworthy dog men that care and share the lines to make this breed a strong contender and that have the knowledge to know what great traits they have in the blood in there yard and what to do with it.apbt have many traits in lines that if bred will throw these traits to the pups many staffords have these as well its just the owners knowing what they have and others knowing what they need,traits like wind mouth ability and so on need to be knowing and tested for.and maybe once the Stafford is at a point were dogs tested well and the traits established in lines then can people bred as apbt are bred for certain weights for matches.the apbt has a lot of established lines to choose from and traits,the Stafford does not have true lines nor traits in these lines to select from and with what the Stafford has it isn't enough.

 

That's my thoughts pockets but I ain't as good as u at putting it in writing lol spot on that

I think with the Stafford needs to be bred more like lurtchers worker to worker till there's some working stock to line breed off 1st

 

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