original old families

Well, being a gambling sport in origin, I guess things never change. Always going to be one person who can see things one way, another who can see them another way, and yet still a third person who saw them different than both the first two.
If you were not there id dont matter, but if you were it seems to fester up.
At the end of the day, my respect would go to one who could respect either and learn from both sides as aposed to them throwing shit away from themselves, while seeming to leave folks in aww. :O

 

more spill over from other ships.

 

no prob ladybug

 

The Mayfield legend is only in the minds of those who didn't even know him, by a younger generation.
One former dogman who knew him and once respected him told me his later writings revealed the writings of a mad man. No joke.
After the poisoning of Bullyson with nicotine, found later in a vial, Don went into isolation from fear of Maurice Carver and his crew,
especially after two "accomplices" of his were found executed in the Texas killing fields.
Only after Maurice died did Don come out of hiding. Then he started running his mouth and Carver's wife had to remind him others are still around.

Another thing people fail to see is Don wasn't open to the world in matching his dogs, same for many,
who let others match em, and if they win they put their names on the dog, lose, it wasn't theirs.

 

I dint whant to stir the pot, But i had my personal contacts with D mayfield. And know a couple of very wel known oldtimers who them selfs have NEVER publickly spoken bad about him . but told me face to face that altho he was one of the better conditioners in his era, He was a real pos person to deal with!!.
25 + years ago I heard a thing ore 2 about his 2 frinds who got ecsecuted , wich was the rezen he got out!!!of the game..
Lots of those things never got out to the pepsi cola gen.

 

i don't think he got out after marty & shorty was offed just stayed inside. i believe his last match was 78?

 

he didnt come outside until old maurice & norman were gone..... hey you play with matches you get burned....

 

limey i have that letter from tudor also another from mayfeild were he wrote a big two page article praising heinzl as a breeder like i said both gave him credit publicly so its a waste of time to try suggest otherwise?? ,plus its got NOTHING to do with tudors breeding and input into DIBO and there no comparison to heinzls imput which was only registering bambi in his name in respect of DIBOS BREEDING,,, you mention the heinzl BRED dogs from arizona great dogs but look up back in there peds and youll see tudors name to ,mayfeild also had many top heinzl bred dogs that he either owned matched or bred fitwaters ch GOLDIE < last irish rednose lol> was one who came from arizona of the heinzl breeding and if you look at the pedigree youll see tudors name up back also ,what tudor said in his interviews was exactly what was wrote in the OKLAHOMA KID story many people have heard earl saying it HISELF as there are recorded interviews,like the ones with fitzwater/ mayfeild, carver /mayfeild burton/ mayfeild funny the respect such greats from the CORE have for mayfeild compared to you and your sources real interested to learn who they are , also your only half right about mayfeild dealing with tudor ,he knew earl for years and was matching crosses of his yard, a mayfeild dog with heinzl breeding,mayfeilds LIGHTNING . was matched into the famous tudors ch SPIKE ,< ch JEFF belly bro > ,the only dog to survive from him i belive ,,your right tho in the way mayfeild didnt get to own tudors purest dogs til later when he got NIGGER an then SPOOKIE from burton i think nigger was 9 when mayfeild got him but lets not forget he was the first person to breed off the dog as a 2 year old using womacks MERT producing mayfeilds <kennedys> SPRING and burtons TIGER DAN sire of the legendry mayfields PIT GENERAL, tudor was mad when burton later sold his stock to mayfeild not so much because it was don but because it wernt offred back to him first, theres a lot of misconceptions about tudors VALUE FOR BREEDING mainly from people repeating stories from other people who never even knew the dogs but tudor would cut a person off for dealing out his stock as got proved with both maloney and burton ,it was tudors blood everyone was trying to obtain back then, look at the most winning dogs most are tudor crosses of some kind,look yourself, and tudor has no problem telling of the lines he was crossing lightner shiply feely henry etc to create what became known as DIBO dogs,nor did mayfeild and its silly talk to suggest diffrent they aint the ones trying to STEAL CREDIT they didnt need to lol no one tried to discredit heinzl truth is they both gave him more credit in print than you mayfeild haters have ,yet hear you are passing judgement over somthing you invented,diffrent ill give ya that lol heinzl bred some great dogs that mayfeild matched hiself its people that were no were near them that start all the shit talk that YOU belived ,but the story above is about TUDOR not you and his imput into the main familys in the DIBO dog which is all TRUE,heinzls breedings can hold up on there own without any need for trash talk same with mayfeild an tudor its just a pity some cant give CREDIT WERE IT DUE ,earl was breeding dogs way back in dibos ped and was getting a good percent of his breeding back in the dibo dog its all very easy to see in the pedigree,i dont recall any writings of heinzl talking such crap of tudors dibo ,he bred some great dogs in his own right which he should be credited for but his imput into the creation of dibo is non existant compared to tudor even if he did give him dibo its not that hard to understand,,im sure heinzl wernt as confused about it as you seem to be , you can find plenty reports of mayfeild in the years he was matching not sure what you meant there ?,, everything in that story regarding the BREEDING behind those dogs is TRUE you are unable to show diffrent so you throw all kinds of wild claims in the hope of moving away from the topic but you aint moving the truth of those peds and tudors imput one inch nor will you ever, eagle what legend of mayfeild are you talking about his dogs an matches like tudors are on record ?? weather you love them or hate them tudor and mayfeild certainly were legends in the pit and both had no problem giving others credit seems real strange how some cant do the same to them , when you have two STANDOUT DOGMEN like that who PROVED so much in these dogs and people like yourselves desperatly try to cover it up or distract away from the things THEY DID it speaks volumes, how much you dont say shows your true motives <and whos well you been drinking from> you forget to say what great dogmen they both were what great bred dogs they both had what great comp they went into what great matches or the respect other great dogmen had for them , how come lol? this a gamedog site not hello magasine but you seem more intersted in personal life gossip and shit talk ? sounds like your sources got a sour tang to em to me lol, you act like your in the know and all about setting the record straight man you must be used to talking to some dummies lol anyone can see were your coming from its all about YOUR OWN bloodlines and what YOU belived ,what tudor said and mayfeild wrote about there OWN dogs shows the lies YOU were told by others,,instead of throwing out wild claims tell us WHO told you diffrent who are these ones that knew better than mayfeild an tudor about tudor/mayfield dogs id love to learn more is it the same ones that told you about the ch ALLIGATOR dogs or the heinzl dogs?,teach us the real stuff dont just trash talk let us make our own minds up if your sources are valid they must be some superior dogmen with superior dogs to tudor and mayfeild should be a real educational read,.BUTT,,if they aint reliable and its just crap you repeating from those who never even knew the dogs spare us leave it out of peoples threads an let them enjoy them like you enjoy threads of your chosen bloodlines,,i mean what mayfield says dont fit in with what YOU heard or what YOU and YOUR sources have told others about pedigrees but really ,,,so what lol does that really give you the right to go round trashing threads ? or shit talking mayfeild,let people make there own minds up,,lwg if you MUST use this thread to contribute to our knowledge of mayfeilds personal life dont give half the story give it all lets hear about those killings an how mayfeild hid an his freindship with carver from your more reliable sources put the record straight for us not so informed ones ,its clear you felt it was relevant to this thread id like to know why, as you do,, oldtimer freinds, bit vague ? dont tease us help us, tell us the TRUTH FROM THE CORE maybe its just me but right now compared to mayfeilds story you and limey sound like a gossip collumn with info from the sewing circle lol its clear you got the real deal info hence your posts on this thread as folks who dont know dont comment right??,please tell us the real truth an provide the sources because i for one would love to hear who knew those dogs better like those oldtimer buddies of yours ,,dont hate educate lol
ps
benbrockton , dons last match were he handled was with snow a deadgame dog that lost to ch charlie,he conditioned other dogs later an helped many people in usa and all over the world with feeding conditiniong breeding advice near everyday right up until he died
pps
some of the heinzl bred dogs mayfeild had
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=164482
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=206
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=208
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=69479
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=432
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=355 mayfield also had the belly bro of the famous jimmy boots, ch ranger 4xw a tudor/heinzl cross
stumbled across this website that has some rare pics of the henry dogs and the first dogs earl tudor bred into his line that you can find way back in dibos pedigree
http://www.lamasko.com/ArticlesTudor.html

 

Hey thanks, redbeard, that last link is pretty good. :-)

 

rebeard: My problem isn't with the real Mayfield, but with the imaginary Mayfield I hear about.
I don't believe in dissing the dead, but from all I have been told about Mayfield, from those who knew him many years, is almost opposite of what I hear others say.
One man told me that he first met Mayfield when he went to his first match. He had Mayfield look at his bitch he was matching and Don told him, "you have yourself a winner here."
Well, he won the match and they remained in contact many years until Don "lost his mind."
But here is a fact: Mayfield was a "cheat!" He had a hand in the poisoning of Bullyson.
As for who told me, I won't repeat their names. They are out of the game and don't care about the current generation. They laugh at the things they hear of people.

Now, when I hear Mayfield was the best conditioner, I also laugh.
He was only one of the best known conditioners. He was not the best.
Why did he have no 5xW's? Because he overconditioned every dog he worked!
His dogs had no recovery time. He took away the performance aspect of his dogs.
But bottom line, Mayfield was a cheat. Where's the honor in that?

As for Tudor, I have nothing negative to say about him. He was a great dogman. He chose Didbo for the Corvino blood behind him.
And yes, Corvino blood is my favorite, as my dogs are heavy in it. But you don't catch me boasting about the bloodline.
Everyone has the bloodline they prefer and it is their choice. But "Mayfield" had only "average dogs," since he never had a 5xW.

Heinzl? Are you kidding? He was a dog thief! He stole from Joe Corvino, after Joe let him keep his dogs in his shop.
Joe raised the price by 25 cents and Howard got all salty, even though Joe was feeding his dogs as well as housing. This was during the depression.
If I remember correctly it was "Corvino's Blackie" that he stole. Then he gave it to Tudor, who knew it was stolen but didn't give it back.
So if I did have a black mark on Tudor that would have to be it.

Now, we all know what we would think if another guy poisoned or stole our dogs, correct?
Who among you wouldn't want to shoot some sob that did either to our dogs?
Then, how would you feel, years later, if you saw that same thief/cheater being praised way above their level.
And no matter what their level, stealing or cheating erases whatever respect they may have had.

Believe it or not. But I know this: I don't believe something just because it is written.
As for sources, it's nobody's business but mine. I gave my word not to name drop, so I plan to keep it.

"The only time a dogman tells the truth is when he calls the other dogman a liar."~Joe Corvino

 

RED BEARD YOUR UNDERSTANDING AND SELF PRO,CLAIMED NOLIGE ON THE MATTER IS FROM TALKING OVER THE PC WITH MAYFIELD ONLY!!. AS FAR AS I KNOW YOU LEFT YOUR COUNTRY ONCE AND NEVER SHOWN A DOG YOURSELF. yet you claim to know it al about the truth in Dibo.. It thussend matter wat you put on ore in the story. Its a KNOWN fact that earl tudor was NEVER a serius breeder but a Fighter(hes said so himself in a magazine). his breeding career started with DIBO who was Given to him bij HEINZL . who alredy had a yard FULL of Dibo dogs, BEFOR Tudor got him.

As for people who hated Mayfield yes thats tru but for a rezen Iven the highly credited GEORGE GILMAN told that Mayfield was a pice of shit in real life to deal with. But like so many others never PUBLICKLY stated that. Like Boudraux and others who shown Class. not to faul mouth him. YOU yourself had no problem in fallowing Mayfields words claiming and saying G Hammonds was a liar and a pos!!. as with Flouyd Boudraux because Mayfield said so!!! YET you never met these man yourself. to hear there side of there truth, nor the man they are in real life,
In order for you to give your jugemend about that.... hell you never iven met mayfield!!. nether did i, But i traveld and met up with lots of oldtimers from back then who met him and Tudor. Including Hammonds Boudraux clemmends ecetera ecetera. so lets say my nolige and mind set arrived with traveling and roaming the bulldog world. DID YOU???.

Coming back to eurl tudor. The mayfield stories about Tudor being a great breeder and that it took him nearly 60 years to recreate Black jack in the likes of Pit General ecetera is also BS.

you DO see the Tudor name tru history in these peds yes ,but most of the dogs carying his name wher NOT bred bij him, And if they where they where mearly two dogs put together who where bred bij others... His apearense in these pedegrees is random and not from a breeding plan!!!!.. we know that it was comon UMONG THE LITTERS HE DID MADE to kill of all the bitches as he only wanted to match the males!!!!.What thus that tell you??.

Its not like he bred his own famely from the 20,s till the day he died!!!!!!!. again we can cleary READ that he stated that the Colby dogs ""lines"" where the best he had. and afther that The Dibo dogs he got . Dogs that where NOT bred bij him.

Having your name mixst in a dogs pedegree tru history thus not make it your creation now thuse it???.
Thats like Pat Patrick claiming in 2000 that the Famouse Nelis rom x Tug rom famely was due to his dogs.
Yet he only bred two dogs together who he didnt bred himzelf to produce Redbaby. who was bred to Tombstone!!!!. a dog he bought and didnt breed himself..

Its like saying ore beliving that Tudors Black jack was a genuin 27xw.
most of the old timers know that 90% of those shows where spontanius back yard rolls for little money.and not contracted fights, Tudor LURED his dumb ass uponends in a spontanius show. NO CAJUN RULLES BACK THEN. but made up country rulles at the spot!!..
he cept dogs like black jack in rezenable shape al the time. gave up ods to lure them in. You know the fraze he told Danny Burton. ""The first thing you need to leurn is how to cheat"".
Tudor was also known as a dog thief!troughout his career, And would put a gun at you if you deard to come and get your dog, most known dog was Black Widow, and NO he didnt steal that dog from CARVER, altho he said mauriece did him wrong at one time. as a ecscuse.
As it is maurice carver sold the dog to G.A Trahan, and was stolen out of his Room!!in a motel.. , No word about that in your glorifying stories.. and he also said he was going to breed black widow to Tudor spike twice and then distroi her!!. yes a tru breeder would kill of al the bitch puppys and one of the beter known produceing bitches in history. give me a brake...

To come back at Mayfield. he was a louwsy breeder!. and like you. he got some stunning bred hard core selected dogs to breed of ""bred"" bij others who bred them for decades.
Puttting the hard work of other people together to produce and breed stunning animals isend your work is it !!. as you mearly DWELL on other peoples work. You yourself can breed a POS CUR bred Mayfield dog to one of those dogs where other peoples work is stuck in and it wil produce, and make up your ore mayfields cur breeding look like its the bisenis!!!!.. YET reproducing the necst gen will be a B..ch

The names of dogs you use as a ecscuse to push Mayfield in the line of great breeders is a FARCE. we only need to look at wat great stuf that came out of his purebred famely from the start upto today!!. witch is NON ECSISTING.
The more SANE people umongst us KNOW the good stuf came out of NIGGER/ ALLIGATOR and there ofspring.
you know those dogs that were NOT bred bij him .
Afther those first 1 ore 2 generation dogs that he was able to bred out of them he alredy lost it!!... al the so called Mayfield haters you claim to be ore are , NEVER EVER talkt bad about giving him the CREDIT he disirved as one of the best conditioners of his era!!...... his stories and claims cary a lot of BS sins he snorted himself crazy with al that stuf he put up his nose and smoking dope all day. Im sorry call it sacrilege in your mind .. but those are facts.

 

PS as we can CLEARLY see in these http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=206 peds put up bij your self we can see that Tudors CH Spike bred out of Dibo was shown into a HEINZL dog where it shows Dibo in the 3e generation!!. and it shows Heinzl alredy HAD a yard full of Dibo dogs.Wich ads to the proofe that Indeed Heinzl took Pety on him giving him the OLD Dibo dog. And that Mayfields BS story about how Tudor got the dibo dog is made up..

 

http://4dtraveler.net/2012/01/30/old-world-irish-scottish/

Some things to look at that refer to old family and old world in aspect of terms. I rhink this thread has gone way off topic and has turned into sour , but has had some detail thrown out there. Some of it has source, while some is just hear say.
Either way, like said above, concider your sources and investigate them and all falls into place!

Thanks for clearing that up for us folks.

 

Is it just me or are these guys not just rambling and ranting just like old don used too.... I can't dechipher shit there saying.... Lets break out a dictionary or something.... You gotta atleast get the spelling close for us to know what your talking about..... And why we arguing about a dog whelped in 1951.... Nobody probly has Dibo in a 7 gen pedigree...... I respect and honor all Dogmen of the past and what they done for us.... But if we gonna argue lemme start a good one..... Right here and now....(not 5 years ago but right now 2013) who is the best breeder around

 

the way red beard post wow, i stopped reading that shit and don't care anymore.
Let's get this back on topic if we can lol

 

mcoy, cajun, joe ,,cant argue with any of you , its bringin me down to an i wrote it ,,i apologise for the mire you had to read thru as i tried to reiterate a few points, lets see some dogs of the old familys of ANY line an get it back on track