Ruffian dogs , Bully's & modern day bulldogs.

Everybody likes more to debate than listen. And keeping & open discussion is always great. That's how we learn. from each other through discussion. The 1st grey dog I seen was in the late 70's. Never seen or heard of one before or again until the mid 90's. They were rare dogs. Not all Ruffian dogs are grey but all grey dogs can be traced back to Ch Ruffian. They are Line bred Earl Tudors Gr Ch Black Jack Dogs. And from the 70's -90's I never even heard of a Bully Dog yet alone the breeders . The color grey was rare & most people that came across one would tell me they could never get one to produce the same color because the were albino versions of black & no one was just breeding them for color. But if some one talked about what was back them the Rare dog we all had the same stories of what we seen. They were always smarter than the competition. Rare "LOST" when everything was the same . Now lets talk about the factors with Ruffian vs Bully dogs. Every dog that's grey is "NOT" a bully dog . Ruffian dogs were around & working long before there were a thought of bully dogs. But you have "ACTUALLY" had to been into dogs . Once again to each his own. But I'll say this much. A lot of dog men over the years knew the qualtiy & understood the concept with crossing & line breeding Ruffian dogs with Modern day Bulldogs. Tudor's Dibo is a good example of the pst. He's mostly Corvino with the Ruffian coming threw Chicago Dolly. That's the Earl Tudor in Dibo. Someone else bred Dibo . Not Heinzl nor Tudor. Old fact also. And threw the years more famous people also implemented it in there breeding programs.
Here's a quote from Jack Kelly about some well known breeders, families & how someone would use the Ruffian blood these days to get better bulldogs.
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Posted:Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:46 am Subject:

If you are going to try a AM Staff x to a top of the line APBT cross today. I would at least use a very well built, deep chested, well bred deep game bitch. Bitch does not have to have a hard bite, Most Am Staff males probably can still bite hard. If you succeed with a game litter, line breed through the APBT bitch line. Not back to the AM Staff side.

I would seek out the Peggy Harper/Doyle AM Staff bloodline. If it is still in existence today. Not only was the Tudor Black Jack line used but also the Al Brown Tacoma Jack blend and Doyle dogs.

Al Brown dogs show a lot of old family Colby/Delihant/ and Henry dogs in the Tacoma AM Staff bloodline. Mr. Ferris way back when used them.

Maurice Carver used and bred some of Peggy Harper's Am Staff blood into his dogs. IF Miss Harper had a Am Staff that was uncontrollable around the other dogs. Was sent To Maurice, since Miss Harper lived not far down the road from Carver. IMHO I feel like this is where some of the Carver line got that powerful tensile strength those dogs display. Boudreaux and Bobby Hall may have done so as well. Note I said may have.

The AM Staff show dog breeders of today, have done much over all harm to the original AM Staff dogs. From say into the late 1970's on. Maybe much earlier. Same has been done to the Colby line from what I have read and been told.

I did try some Tacoma Am Staff dogs in the early 1970's,was some of the first dogs I owned. Mr. Dailey had these dogs from the early 60's through the early 70's. These little dogs Looked a hell of a lot better than most of these APBT of today. Looked like a proper built Bull Terrier according to the Your Friend and Mine standard.

Were deep game, had good air, and could bite and wrestle. Raplh Greenwood, when he started his magazine created a new APBT standard. One can never just breed for a standard in match dogs. If the dogs are not deep chested depth wise, (do not want barrel chested), with strong necks and strong limber back ends.

Chances are they will not be deep game or can win many shows in hard competition. Good air and strong wrestling ability goes hand in hand with gaminess to deep gaminess.

When I was a young boy in the 50's. My uncle had some of the Oxley bred AM Staff dogs. He had good success with them and were very nice looking pit dogs.

Three of my favorite looking and performing, APBT was Greenwoods Jimmy Boots/ my Face bitch and Garner's Dolly. All of these dogs looked more like the older Bull & Terrier APBT type dogs of the past. Another I liked built wise is the Weird Jack dog. Cheers
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He didn't just mention the blood that was used but also gave a brief insite of a breeding scheme. It The order in which you breeding & the % of what you use.
You don't have to be exact to get desired effects but you'll have a good idea about were to go with it. Tudors Dibo had it him so that means that Tudor Dibo dogs also ran with it.
Again a reason why even Don Mayfield talked about his Mayfield Dibo being "BORN BLUE" but later changing to buckskin. The Adba wrote an article about how the Ruffian dogs were then & how the closest family to them in modern day dogs are the Boudrauxs" Eli dogs", in the 2010 Spring edition Titled" The English dogs. They also talked about Tudors dibo role in the whole process also.
These are "OLD & Well Known Facts". About the Ruffian dogs.
The whole purpose of this is to say Don't put limits on good dogs based on Color .


Breed dogs based on performance. 2 examples of then & now. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=9 in the past, Check out Chicago Dolly in his pedigree.
What we have done in the present http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=456182

 

Pedigrees for Ch Ruffian http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=15182
Chicago Dolly http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=1486

 

Coreection."DIBO HAS NO RUFFIAN BUT THE SAME TYPE BRED DOGS ,CHICAGO DOLLY AS THE RUFFIAN!"

 

Ties in with what I've seen in 15 generations