The Myth of Best to Best Explained

I agree with what your saying to large degree still you must look at the individual dogs they should complement one another my question is now what do you do next generation some our cross is desired to avoid skin issues and nervous ticks

 

1st if problems such as that then don't breed. But if still choose to then it's simple steps.
Keep in mind THE PROBLEM DOG WILL NOT BE THE BASE but a cross or better a 3 way cross using that same dog is better. Cross the problem only dog once, twice @ most to a completely differrent bred dog as pure as possible. This will dilute it. Use minimum pups from litter, best 1 or 2 @ most that do not look like problem dog. If possible use a male from that cross which is once again looks differrent, & breed to a pure outcross female more towards the outcross dog. Then once again take the new battle cross dog to dilute once more crossing it to another pure dogs.
As long as you don't make the bad dog a priority & be willing to even cross the 50% bad dog cross, the % rate will be low enough not to effect the dogs as much if any in the future. Remeber it's the blood & family you want not the dog, & not how much blood but how much that works.

 

Remember that outcrossising is not enough. You have to line breed it to weed it out & tighten up on good side of dogs.
Example. The Sorrells dog as problem dog. What blood but not dog. 1st step. 100%http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=115765
2nd step thining the blood by line breeding it.Using less than 50% of origional strain.It's 43%
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=378432
, 3rd step. out crossing the out cross blood of the problem dog .
Less than 25% of origional strain.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=528738

 

That all sounds good on paper lmao

 

I have this little female ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [495853] :: HOUSTON'S PLANNED BREEDING if she holds true my plans are to take her to a proven producing stud that complements her topside. With the out being heavy frisco.He too has Bolio in him. I'm hoping to find the proper Butkus bred dog. After that I WILL BE PATIENT and SELECT from there. The chances are slim when starting from ones own yard as far as males go for breeding but who knows, if your male is breed good and is good to YOUR standards give him a shot. He could very well be a good producer. I have this lil fellow as well ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [526803] :: JACK / LISA only time will tell if he deserves to be bred. If he deserves the chance he should be a great addition. Hopefully no more leaving the yard...but if I have to, I won't hesitate. Still breeding the best to best I can find with similar traits from the same family.

 

If you are directing that comment to my statement "scott.scaggs.501 " , than I can assume either you just gotten started into dogs or don't know anything about dogs.


"Indeed you sound like one of those officers in the show fishing for info!"
THESE ARE THERE TACTICS THAT ARE WELL KNOWN!"

Not only is that pedigree an actual pedigree, but there are pics of each & every dog.
Many have seen , worked with & own those dogs.
Obviously you cannot even suggest with a drop of common since that a pedigree with pics " sound good on paper " , yet the dogs & pics are the proof.
So because of your statement I would love to see your work that exceeds you statement & mine, meaning your words sound good with lack of actual knowledge.
Now I'm lmao @ someone who is trying to clown but doesn't realize just how stupid they look & sound.
Common since with little limited or more than likely in this case no experience .

PICS in the pedigree's both on the internet & in the magazines are more than proof enough!
But that's just common since & we all know common since isn't common these days.


Either show more work & less foolishness or sit back while grow folks are talking.

 

All due respect to you and your efforts (and results) sir, I admire your program. On the flip side however, Scott has in fact produced champions who have in turn produced champions and legitimate grand champions that have run in the inside fast lane. He does have a different point of view on breeding than you (and me for that matter) but he has been more successful than most with very few failures.
I guess that what i am saying is that there are different recipes that still produce a good cake.

 

The Europeans like to breed best to best and it doesn't appear to do them any harm in the place where it matters...

 

tittle's are not producing only genes

 

its al in the breeding ...EARL TUDOR

 

Genie in a bottle.....CHRISTINA AGUILERA

....rub it and make a wish keystone lol.

 

Very informative read. But I'm curious if Ziggy could help me better understand how 4 and 5 way crosses could breed consistency? My example of said consistency is Gr. Ch. Mayday. Mayday had seemed to produce the same type of animals not only in physical attributes but also in characteristics. Now my question comes from the fact that mayday came off Gr. Ch. Yellow (redboy/jocko with a small loposay/lonzo out no one ever talks about) bred to Hollingsworth Dolly (tombstone/bolio with alil boomerang).

Now i understand that the loposay/lonzo blood in yellow is far enough back that it probably contributes very little to genes of mayday as is the boomerang blood in Dolly, but even without those included Mayday is still 4 seperate lines. Redboy/jocko/bolio/tombstone. And he himself is also the "battle cross". That'd said I'm curious if light could be shed on how or why (what contributions made it possible) mayday was not only such a solid animal but produced consistently solid hounds that weren't unlike him in type and characteristics?
Just a few thoughts a had while reading this thread. Thanks in advance for anyone who tries to help me better understand.

A

 

Well Sir different breeders that breed different families often use Patterns or breeding schemes.
This means that a family may have a certain dog as it's base. This dog is crossed & woven with other dogs to create & maintain hybred vigor.
This is what line breeding is about. A dog can be pure Red Boy & crossed to 5 different families but woven back together using red boy as a base either in 1/2 bro sis, Uncle/Niece or even Grand parent - Grandchild.
Line bred dogs usually have something different between top & bottom especially 1/2 brother & sisters or different amounts of the same blood. Inbred has the same exact dogs in them with usually with the same amount of the same blood .
The COMMON FACTOR will maintain the consistency. In this case Red Boy.
I'll put a few examples & point out how 4 or more families can be line bred together for consistency.
1) http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=6836

Sorrells Uncle Bud. He's line bred on Sorrells Red Jerry which is 1 dog bred to 4 different females. This makes 5 different dog bred for consistency.
Even though they are not the same exact blood as Red Jerry, the end result dogs are consistant on Red Jerry. This is why he (Uncle Bud) is 43% of a dog that far back in his pedigree


2 Patrick Cochise. same thing. Bolio makes 1, bred to 4 different females. Even the females are related they still have something different from each other.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=602


In this one is Alligator as a base for consistency but is line bred more than one way. The Base is Kirks Ginger. Alligator/OFRN cross. the dog is 50% Ginger. It's also line bred uncle/niece a Gineger /Jap Cross.
This dogs consist of about 4 different families but line bred consistent with the Alligator.
It has Alligator, Ofrn, Stompanato & Eli coming from the Bottom of Jap.
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [136518] :: BROWN'S' DOMINGO NEGRO


Last one is personal. Line bred on Cross fire 1/2 br/sis who is a dog line bred on 3 different families. Hicks, Sorrells, Browns Alligator. He was crosses to 2 more females each consisting of 3 families but Game hunter still has dominant traits of Common factor with Hy-bred vigor & traits of add families.
As long as you line breed on 1, be it dog or cross , it doesn't matter how many you add to it.


http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=456182

 

Looks good.
Even though has the Patrick both top & bottom to compliment each other has something different from top & bottom to give more hy-bred Vigor.
Best way from breeding them cold to me. I always like a little something different to maintain or boost the hy -bred vigor.
Good luck. Once again looks good.

 

That doesn't bother the Dogmen when they have a winner in the []. I know scatterbreeding doesn't bring consistency but it can't be argued that it produces winners in the Gane.

 

People are so against cross but history shows that but the best performers and producers are crosses. Every type of breeding is a valuable tool but some of these post are silly
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [894] :: ABRAHAM'S QUEEN OF HEARTS (8XW)
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [560] :: SOUTHERN KENNEL'S MAYDAY
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [397] :: TANT'S YELLOW (6XW)
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [471835] :: TRIANGLE GANG'S GRIP DOY2014BIS
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [494624] :: FMK/F2F/SOLO'S TITERE
I'll stop unless ya'll just want me to keep going lol

 

Might as well post a few producers while i'm on here
I've already posted Mayday and Yellow
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [2] :: CRENSHAW'S JEEP (4XW)
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [337] :: (GARRETT'S) WHITE'S TAB
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [442] :: <B>LEE'S RENO (8XW-2XL)
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [3] :: CRENSHAW'S HONEYBUNCH (3XW)
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [21273] :: <B>ROAD WARRIOR'S BOOGER

 

Croata does not have a pretty pedigree, by American standards, neither does Titere in some regard; however in time both might establish a line unto themselves and become a new reference point in the development of the breed just as Mayday did.

 

I don't think people are against crosses. But if you don't have any pure families hard to make a cross

Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk

 

Dream Pits I am not against a cross by any means. I believe good dogs are just that. Any dog that proven him or herself to the owner probably will be included in the breeding program. I am sure worse dogs that haven't met standards that have been bred. If I'm not mistaken Mayday started the proven cross and seems to me when they bred him they complemented him with either side to produce like kind. Either red boy jock-o or bolio tombstone.. Ofcourse there are crosses. Your either breeding for brood or performance the way I see it. To me also nowadays redboy jock-o == 1 dog ; bolio tombstone=1 dog( 50/50)hence cross. When bred right and tight. I hope this makes since. 1 more thing its to my understanding these 4 lines we speak of all have a common ancestor of the OFRN decent. Alias, if you research hard enough you will find it like i did.