Today 's problem

Don't fool yourself thinking you done something because you bought someone else's dogs.
Don't think how a dog is bred means the dog is worth breeding.
Don't ever go with someone with a bunch of years but no family of dogs because he's just buying dogs the same as any novice just starting.
Always pay attention to see how much of his talk is about what he did or what someone else had done.
People like to run there mouths will always talk about the dogs they fed & bred.
But if he isn't Garner but his whole convo is Garner then drop him & go see the source. Garner
Before the internet this is how most people working dogs did.
All of this he's bred like this or came from him comes from the internet & people who never fed anything worth talking about.
Papers can be changed & peddlers will always sell dogs based on other's family & not have one of there own.
A breeder allows a few to go out. He can't keep them all.
A peddler is nothing more than a horse trader buying a dog from one person & selling it to another.
If they aren't the source then keep it moving.
No one can have 10-20yrs of bad luck with dogs.
If they have that many yrs & don't have a bloodline then they are saying a few things. Never had anything worth breeding or didn't know what they were doing.
I quit listening to people that go on about other folks dogs decades ago. especially those that talk like experts with no families of there own.
The only way to know that your feeding a good hunting dog is to go hunting.
Nothing else matters especially papers from the guy trying to sell you the dog but is not the breeder of the dogs .
Stick to the sources & cut out the middle men peddlers!

 

yet another page in the breeders bible...preach on...amen...

some breed for ever with out a real objective and no real evidence of what they try to push...peddle on...

 

Thier are some men that just don't give a shit meaning they will use what they have and when they lose all of them just go buy more..Not everybody was in it for breeding.

 

Great post slim12. The person that took me under his wing. He didn't care who breed it or what any paper said. As long as it was game that's all he looked for. An if anyone is looking for anything other then that they weren't dog men.

 

I agree stinkrock, I dont think that I ever didnt like slims post as he seems very knowledgable in his wording and sharing his experiences, thanks slim for adding value...

Theres the type that utilize what ever they can, that works and are dogmen of action and wold probably rather be paid C&Hs and not breed or raise dogs...

Theres the far oppisite end that will only use what they breed, perhaps to prove thier worth as a breeder...

Then theres those that breed a family tree that bare no fruit, which in turn bare no seed,,, maybe the roots werent strong because they didnt stuart the earth...

 

I'm with you Elias'

 

This is 100% correct!

 

I & others started that same way while Elias is contradicting himself with this.
No one around here that had worked & hunted with dogs. The dogs they came from where very well known locally but not nationally. Not even most dog men because dogs weren't a living but on the side recreation.
But it's real backwards when guys like Elia's Pistola now actually meats some open who based dogs on performance & not house hold names jumps back & forth.
NO BREEDS TO SEE A NAME, CARE WHO BREEDS IT,OR ANY PAPER that I came up with but the guys "saying now " that talk shyte about pedigrees they see from people with names that aren't household & peddled off.
My papers show I actually meant that & lived but not caring about papers by what I started with. Local proven dogs not bred or known from famous people.
Check for yourself. Not just talk.
I deal with & have always try to stick to un famous people & dogs.
If I were a paper chaser like most these day's then I would have started out breeding pure bolio's , heinzl's, Midnight cowboys or red boys & so on.
I knew & still know dogmen with those dogs from back then when I started family .
That's how long I've known folks like Bullgame Kennels & even others Not famous with not famous dogs that have there own families of dogs.
The name over generations comes from the proof of seeing each dog & nothing else!
So I really hope you didn't only see the part about breeding a family & that's all you got from it!
The greater picture about were how people buy & peddle off other folks dogs.
Not for one second can anyone tell me
No one for 10-20yrs with dogs never bred a dog!
You just can't.
They might not stick with what they feed, but they dam sure bred a dog or two they seen proven themselves.
Most these days are really confused about breeding & what is a breeder. Just a sad fact.
Breed two dogs just once & you just became a breeder. Fact!

 

Elias you are the BIGGEST LIAR I HAVE SEEN IN A LONG TIME!!!
Walking contradiction!!!!

YET EVERYTHIG YOU SAY ABOUT N MY DOGS ARE BASED ON PAPERS!
YOU DON'T KNOW ME OR EVER SEEN ONE SINGLE DOG!

Later I continued that theory when I started my family which you always have something to say about!

You don't know me, you haven't seen one dog in any of my pedigrees, you don't even know the dogs that are @ the begging of my family of dogs.

You talked so much crazy stuff with the little staff thing & on the Fake champs about ' PPROVEN DOGS,CH'S & GRD CH'S "that local dogmen seen proven, SOLEY because THEY DON'T HAVE PRETTY PAPERS OFF FAMOUS DOGMEN!!!!

Once again , you flip flop @ the drop of a dime.GR CH CRUM WAS A PROVEN GRD CH' .
A whole bunch of dogs you never seen or heard of!!!

But if they aren't a household name or you don't see them in a well known book somewhere in your small mind it ain t so.

Dog men that breed more , work dogs more. They see how breeding's turned out & do it to repair or replace strengths & weaknesses.
No two dogs are the same even belly mates. So to choose a breeding you need to see a dog!

A breeder is simply "ONE GUY ONE STANDARD". That's it! His ideal of what the breed should represent! If he doesn't have pups in every city than he mostly don't want everyone to have his dogs!
You can't beat him with my own if I never let them out!

They see strength's & short coming you can only see thru performance that papers don't show. Something you obviously don't know. Why else would you always put down people dogs based on papers?

That's when & only when He knows what two dogs must be bred to counter balance each other to better "HIS FAMILY".
And so you will learn something knew from a real dogmen who breeds for performance & not fame or money is by how many of the dogs he bred he let go of vs keep for himself.
If his dogs are every where & he sells to everyone with a dollar, it's not for performance or the family but the money & fame.
Reguardless of if he has 3 generations or 13 generations.
but some one like myself who has bred more than most but have let go of least than most don't want everyone with HIS DOGS.
What so they will have a chance to come & beat them with there own stuff?
But if you are not active then it don't matter who has it.
This thread spoke on people who buy & re sale dogs based on others work!
They base their dogs & convo on Papers!
Not what they actually seen.
Clowns that talk crazy because they don't think a dog is better because of papers.
More important, folks that have done nothing themselves to talk about but throw stones @ people who done more than they can dream off!!!
It's called being a HATER these days!


I base mine on what I seen.Not what I heard or what the paper says. What I've seen.
I never cared about papers ,colors or rumors. Dogs speak for themselvs & that's all that matters to me!
I've seen enough dogs early to realize that decades ago.
You talk about what others had & done & not done, I base mine on what I do & done.
So if you never seen one dog in 100"s literally , than how can you even have a clue other than papers on that dog?
Mines or anyone's else's? YOU CAN"T ! Not truthfully!
Talk about what you did & not what you think because obviously you jump back & forth from a dog isn't good based on papers to you don't care about papers!

Said it before, DON'T WORRY ABOUT PRETTY PAPERS & HOUSE HOLD NAMES, YOU KNOW THERE DOGS & THE LIMITS . IT'S PEOPLE THAT KEEP THERE DOGS TO THEMSELVES & A SMALL FEW & WHO AREN'T HOUSEHOLD NAMES WHO BEEN DOING IT JUST AS LONG!

 

Breed two dogs and your a breeder...... lol ok that's your opinion not a fact Jack

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There is merit in every opinion, and that's the beauty of this thing. Many times it is differences in schools of thought that cause conflict. Correct me if I am wrong, but what I gather from Ziggy is that it is not so much the names of bloodlines but the application of a man's work based on his standards. That being said a "family" could be established over generations using say three unrelated dogs, personally I agree that the more important name is the first that is who owned/bred the dog than seeing actual dogs' names. One only has to call certain names, if one said one has a Stone city, Hard core or Casino dog immediately one has a basic idea how such is bred. The general American public tends to focus more on the names of popular dogs and less on who actually put the dogs together. It was thunder98 in another thread posted a pedigree of a "soldier boy" bred dog but to others it might have been a jeep/ alligator bolio cross or whatever. This breed was always about the men behind the dogs, it was peddlers and mega dealers who shifted focus to the stories titles and popularity show

 

All those problems have always existed to some degree in the past, its just that in today's times there is more of it due to the increasing popularity of the breed world wide.

 

yet another good post,,, starlion...

 

Question for you. If you breed two dogs & fill out the paper work do you not fill out "BREEDER".
Will not birth certificate have you as the breeder?
Just though that was common knowledge.
How fare you take it is up to you. But If your dogs have papers & you fill out paper work You will always be known as the BREEDER of that litter.

 

I agree with you 100%

 

only when you pay others to tell you how your dogs are bred or when your peddling papers...
like our old mentor TDK taught us... get a sharpie and a garage door and if they need pepers they are getting the dog for the wrong reason...
Ziggy, I bet when you fill out the breeders name your job is done...

 

Well if I go to the park and run a game of basketball with my friends I Geuss I'm a basketball player...... But lol of course if the papers say so it's gotta be true

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Come on Caj, your a southern fry cook and a damn good one damn it, lets face it not evryones a breeder and sometimes good bulldogs and bisquits come from other skill sets that are tasty as well...

kenitodrake is the basketball player and ziggie zag is the breeder as it says it on the papers...LMrAO...