Are we all a bunch of hypocrits?

You know I tell the story from all reasonable sides and that I don't spread bullshit.....for anybody's benefit.

 

THERE JUST FR@*#N DOGS PEOPLE! Continuing to hold them to super higher standard of not goin to bite a human I believe is stupid, Of course were alittle biased because this is our type of breed choice and various reasons from differant people. The breeds has a bad rap from the media, its not because there a combat gaming dog that they would bite as I believe that thats what the media pushes and why headlines use the words PIT in the title.If one wanted they could prolly dig up dirt on almost every breed as far as if its bitten a human. Sugar coating any breed type is wrong, ankle biters to St Bernard's! I agree that working lines of breeds are not for everybody 100% they have different needs to maintain composer. I know a Lab trainer that works the WORKING lines these are athletic high drive energetic lines, not couch potato's and he gets bit all the time handling these dogs...why I have no Idea, maybe his training methods.

 

So in reality the APBT never was a trustable human friendly family dog?

 

Let me answer your questions accordingly but first off let me just say you sound and write just like Stratton LMAO.

Second you contradicting ya own self fool look at your quotes"So, please,....find some of real old and real honest dog folks who are still around and talk with them about when things really started getting hot and why". BUT YET YOU GO ON TO SAY,"Truth is, a lot of them were criminals, thugs and drug-dealers themselves in their time and in their day." , You been reading too many stratton books huh highcoasthiker? LMAO

3rd. The GENERAL public never had them ,ONLY a FEW elite people and some commeners did, and those people usually had experience in the breed and believed and understood what that breed of dog was bred for and capable of doing.

Last but not least , you keep on repeating your self about listening and reading critically and talk to honest folks? Do you know how much bullshit there is in these dogs history??? LOL Too much fucking story telling you are listening too and not enough actual TRUTHS. LMAO

 

Well,.......thanks. I may not always agree with what Stratton had to say,...I've actually met, emailed and talked with the man a little,.....but,....he could write and communicate his thoughts like few others could,.....so,...thanks for the compliment.


I don't see any contradictions,......a lot of the old folks ran in less than legal or honorable company in their time and in their day,....just like I said. Hell, even my uncle Sonny who, was an OG back in the days, grew up,...if they're lucky/wise enough to live to old age,.....it might serve us all well to shut the hell up and listen to what they have to say. After all, they were there. I didn't say swallow everything hook, line and sinker,...but I find that if you listen more than you talk with enough knowledgeable people and compare enough of the same stories,....certain common facts and truths start to emerge,....genius.

Please, even you know that you're bullshitting and reaching....just trying to defend some ignorant image,.....I'm not sure what and I'm not sure why. I never said everybody had them,.....but if you think that only dogfighters had pit bulls in general,....game-bred pit bulls in particular,.......you just might need to read a little bit,...or ask around,...or do something to inform yourself.

Anyway, you're just talking loud and saying nothing. And frankly, there's no winning when you try to explain/argue with someone who fights as hard to stay stupid as you do.

Anyway folks,....here's my suggestion....if you have the chance, talk to some of the folks who were around back then and still are now....there aren't many,...I assure you. But, don't just check the old ADBA folks, even check the older UKC and AmStaff folks too,.....a lot of them were in deep way back when and some of them also know parts of the history and the stories.

And I will keep repeating myself about listening and reading. After all, I don't know of a better way to find out what happened way back then, and understand how it is affecting us now. Or,....you can continually run your mouth, pretend that you know,...and act like the entire history of Pit Bulls started on your yard with your little clique on the day you touched your fist dog,......just like Saiyagin.

 

Truth but also the other way arround!!!!!!

I think scratching back is a matter of many circumstances and might chances are better if he can handle strange places and travelling properly if used to it than the other way arround!
Not an exact science but to me there´s some truth to it!

That´s what I wanted to start with that thread!!!!!!

Put the cards on the table!!!!!!

Love it and do like the point of views of each!

As for all of you MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!

 

Yes. OF course it was. Many were then as many are today. Some were not then, as some are not today. However, people on both sides of the argument, tend to make unrealistic blanket statements about all Pit Bulls,...which aren't true. And as I said, in the last few decades, a lot more people have sought out and had access to highly strung, competetive animals which the really have no understanding of or reason for keeping.
But, that's America....and the rest of the world for ya......Everybody wants/wanted the hardest Dobies, Rotties from protection lines,...because they heard they were the best to have,.....retrievers/terriers from hunting stock wound up of peoples' wish lists for the same reason.......the best is the best. But, people rarely considered if such dogs were best for their apartment dwelling,....nine to five working,....lifestyles. And as we know,...as long as there are people willing to pay for something,...there will always be other people willing to breed, borrow or steal it for them....for the right price.

 

You ever read Chapter 8 In the Half Century by G.H.?

"Man biters--Keep one if you must, but take care if you do."

 

I did at least as it is basic reading in my opinion!

 

HCH don´t mind because sometimes this topic leaves the logical base of discussion...........

See, everyone of us has it´s views some call mine ridiculous but these are my ethics and I´ve don well with them in the past and in the future, well who knows????????

Where would we all be if don´t rethink what we do and where we´ll go?

As for thing getting fucked up, Colby was a major player when it came to AKC recognizing the breed and change its name aswell getting away from game testing the future stock!

For what reason? Later he turned his back on these people!!!!!!

Corvino sold also to non fighters and didn´t seem to mind........

All those American Staffordshire Terriers and Showtype dogs must have been come from somewhere and therefore all these backyard bred dogs and troublemaking mutts have also come from someone and somewhere!

Major thing is we do have many and far too many people that preach water and drink wine!!!!!!

They go like do as I say don´t do as I do........ Therefore they are hypocrits an violating all that would be necessary to preserve the breed and we are today way to close to the edge!!!!!!!!

There are some countries all over the world that have made some serious efforts of legislating this breed out of existance and if we don´t live by strict ethics may one day the American Pit Bullterrier aswell as the hard work of countless generations and people involved finally would be out of existance!

Manbiters are far too risky to let them stay alive, especially within such a powerfull bred, They should be burried and forgotten for the sake of the breed!

Genetically passed deseases should be whipped out as a working dog must be healthy and mentally as well as physically able to do it´s job!

We that want to keep a dog that is a straight and true working dog shall them keep as such and therefore do our best to serve their working needs!

 

.....what?

 

See, a shy dog is basically under more stress than a mentally stable dog.
Let´s consider you have to travel with a dog that has been at least stressed out by the car drive and the strange location it might lower it´s resistance against pressure as the resistance to pressure to a dog that could handle this all with ease.
So as I do think losing depend on many factors, game, physical damage, exhaustion and ability to handle pressure a shy dog that is stressed by all the pre action stuff already might be more likely to don´t show it´s full potential than the other.......

Just a theory that won´t be able to proof that easy but worth of thinking about it!

Naustroms, you as a seasoned dogger would you consider it a good idea to travel with a dog that would get stressed because of long travel and tire itself before the action even starts?

Me, I sure as hell won´t travel with that dog!

 

And for the record

I do love bold and cocky dogs that are unimpressed by no matter what´s going on around them!

Right now I do have a pup that you simply can´t scare of!

That´s the kind of dog I like and believe me he has boatloads of drive!

This is a fighting dog breed and not a pissing his own pants breed and a fighters first and foremost attitude is being brave a shy dog simply doesn´t display bravery at all and therefore isn´t considered any good to me.......

I know there have been many dogs that yet have proven their worth in the box and in the brood pen that have been shy in various degrees, they aren´t my kind of dogs anyways.........

 

Benthere, I do but seems you don´t read my posts clearly!

Stay with your manbiters if you dare too but it´s about selective breeding, and each of us has their own views on what to select for............

I don´t care as long they are game is by far not enough!!!!!!

Maybe it was at a time but there are far more little aspects and sidenotes that making a complete picture and this you seem to miss or simply don´t want to permit to be the truth!

I don´t sugar coat these dogs as I don´t sugercoat animals in general as I grew up with working dogs and believe me you pissride along the thing that I don´t think manbiters should be worth shit........

We as humans can select fitting to our needs and if for example chinaman would have been whipped as he bit once, hell there would be sure as hell another dog that took its place as a producer, as simple as that!

Don´t you think I´m aware that these dogs are created for combat, their whole mental setup aswell as their whole physicall setup?

Sure as hell, and therefore they are my breed of choice!

Do you really think I do have showstock or bullies?????

Fuck I don´t would even think about feeding that crap stock!

I do and did have dogs from serious stock and knew why I do have my ethics as you seem to be a man of false compromises............................!?

I never made compromises if it came down to my ethics and are very hard to myself aswell as very hard to please therefore in selecting dogs that I consider worth of even beeing fed they should do best to display what I ask of them and not like oh he´s such a good performer, don´t mind if he mauled my son, he could give me a bunch of good ones and earn me some cash!

Hell never bite the hand that feeds you!!!!!!!

Even if it would be the best performer and producer of all times that I bought for a million bucks a month before, if he´d go against me he would be burried...............Period!

What has this to do with a lack of understanding?????? These are my principles I do live by!

See I grew up like if someone slaps you on the right cheek don´t offer him your left cheek, break it´s fucking neck and piss on its grave!

Would I breed a cripple?????? Hell how if he won´t be amongst the living anymore?????
Why shall I feed a working dog that can´t work?

If I really like a animal that is crawling on it´s nipples if I take him on a walk, hell I´d go with a rabbit and not with a fighting dog!

Shit I´ve seen Pitbulls that have been pissing themselves all over if you took them out of their yard, what the hell should that be??????????????? Nothing I´d feed and these dogs came from a known breeder!

Bunch of shit that I don´t want no part of!

I´d prefer dogs that are eager to work and that not first get to be tried from their own piss if you take them out to get them in shape!

These are my ethics and I do live pretty good by them also I do put all into my dogs that I do think they will benefit from mentally and physically and therefore I should be ashamed????????

So what do you live by????????

Do you change your ethics as the wind blows??????

 

Being shy is directed at human interaction and the perception of certain objects..... Shyness and work ethic and ability have nothing to do with one another..... That goes for any breed of working dog.. I've seen GSD hide from you in their kennels on the yard.. but take down real suspects in the midst of action. I've seen bay dogs nearly faint when you approach them to lead up... but never break bay no matter what.... and I've seen 'spooky pups' bust holes in boars in the training pen no matter how many times they were thrown up in the air........

 

Sure, I've seen a few of the ones you describe....but I've found those to be the exception. With the really shy ones I've had, it came down to the fact that unless I planned to hold conventions in my backyard and hunts in their dog houses,...those dogs were completely worthless to me. After a whole lot of work and time, one did show a little spark when put on the spot. However, by the time he was done shitting himself a few times during the car ride over,.....pissing himself a few times more on the way in,.....then puking what was left in his guts out all over the carpet,.......that fire went out quick. I don't care how well-bred it is,....if its so nervous it's trying to use the other dog like a cave and hide under it.....its chances are pretty slim. There's spooky....and then there's fucked-up useless.

 

Four pages of bullshit.

Good quote from benthere.
Highcoast, I don't believe Ben was saying people did not get bit back in the day... cuz obviously non-dogman type folks have owned these dogs for a long time as well. Seems more philosophical than a lesson in history. If only dogmen owned these animals...

As far as people revising the history of the breed and what not. What breed isn't some noble, courageous, majestic type of creature. Every breeds history has been romanticized. Wether it be the all american family dog, descendants from roman war dogs, etc. Wheres the problem in that though? How has that had a negative effect on the dogs or people that own them??

 

That some of you still preaching and believing in these fairytales!!!!

So the examples I mentioned all the time dogmen got bit or theit family, if only these guys haven´t been involved with dogs at all....... they´d probably haven´t get bit! LOL!!!!!!!

And if your have read the OP it´s not only about the breeds history it´s a lot of what and how we do ourselves but this has been ignored in almost every answer!

 

I only replied to the two things in the thread that were worth a response.

I think "4 pages of bullshit" covered the rest...