Big dogs.

I was reading an old journal.

I was looking through an old journal today July-August 1978 the issue with F.B. and Blind Billy on the cover. I found this ad I thought some of you might find interesting.

Freeman's Texas Bulldogs​

Puppies from top bred, interbred and line bred Dibo dogs.​

Pups: Sired by heinzl's Gringo, out of his great granddaughter. Gringo is getting old, It may be his last litter.​

Pups: Sire: Freeman's Yankee - tight Dibo breeding by way of Bullyson, Art's Missy, Carver's Ironhead, Carver's Miss Spike.​

Dam: A Daughter of Carver's Midnight Cowgirl.​

Pups: Sire: Freeman's Preacher Boy---105 lbs.​

Dam: Freeman's Sassy Puppet--- A great grend daughter of Boudreaux's Boze.​

Great catchweight dogs.​

Several other litters out of stock from 35-105 lbs.​

Bred for gameness and ability!​

Just wanted to share this for the fact that alot of people ar lead to belive that these huge dogs dont exist, and that is not the truth. THESE DOGS ARE NOT THE NORM BUT THEY DO EXIST! Big dogs are not my thing but if ya got one and hes is bred for the right reasons than thats good for you. Any way i was just bored and figured id share this. Heres the ped on that PREACHER BOY dog​

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=907​

 

you are very correct. Usually all these internet fake dogmen get on here and try and pretend like they know everything and tell people they don't exist

 

They said it was very rare, in other words, kinda like finding a dollar on the ground. and you'd be better off going with a proven stock thats pretty larger than average than taking the risk of finding something worthless. You asked the members here for help, they did, truth was told easy as that.

 

yeah, they exist,


... but are they REALLY "preferred"?
imo, they deter from the original standard...

 

By some people yes, but in most cases, no its rare. The apbt standard is GAMENESS. Ability....not their size. Why do you think they range from 25-75, and even the very rare lol 105lbs.

Odd.

 

I wasn't referring to you but since you chimed in i will address. Instead of doing their due diligence people on the thread flat out told me they don't exist and others without even knowing me mocked me and claimed that I had no clue what I'm talking about and that i was should probably go look in my local newspaper, lol. I asked for help because sometimes in doing a search you don't see every site so what better place to ask than here. I have found a couple large game apbt kennels so far. You said that the members told the truth but you are wrong some members told the truth, some were not sure, and others made flat out false claims.

Also you claim that they said it was rare and that is a completely false statement. Not one person on the thread said it was rare. Thanks for jumping in but atleast get the facts right before you post on something. The people that posted negative things on the thread are either not knowledgable or just like to try in belittle others for their educational short coming

 

The freeman line as I know it, 'belonged' to Mr. Eddington. The same man who took his 'Freeman' line of dogs into Dogge de Bourdeaux to make the 'Eddington' line of dogs starting with 'Wanna be a Whopper'. This '105 lb' stud could have been one of the dogs already cross bred to start this line of weightpullers, which was eventually the cause of Eddingtons own death. Especially in 1978, when there wasn't such a focus on "HUGE XXXXL PITS WITH HUGE BLOCK HEADS AND MASSIVE BONE STRUCTURE" ....there would not have been a 105 lb stud who was bred off of anything game or game-bred. People are always looking for validation to the fact that the huge dogs of today aren't the effect of cross-breeding. Look, you can breed only the biggest to the biggest for 15 years and come out with some pretty big friggin dogs. That's true. But for dogs to show up so quickly by way of FAD and POPULARITY who not only are WAY to big for standard, but actually LOOK like other breeds (sans cropped ears)....there's no other way to INTELLIGENTLY explain it other than cross breeding for size. Just look at SOME of the 'Castillo' bred dogs of today. Some of those guys are up to 95 lbs...but you can also look at their pedigrees and see exactly where they started being bred for size and looks. But you can also tell that those dogs are still pure to this breed, although not being bred to gameness. There are also 'Castillo' dogs out there who look IDENTICAL to their 95 lb brethren, but weigh 45-50 lbs. Yea, you can take a Dibo bred dog to a Dogge De Bourdeax...then back to the Game dog, and come out with some LARGE dogs, and some of those might possess some gameness....but that was still an outcross, and nobody trying to gain fame, recognition, or money will ever admit to doing so. Do you think Mugleston's (sp?) Pitbull Farm will ever say "Yea, Lobo was the result of a working-type Neo Mastiff bred to the biggest Blue AmStaff Bulldog cross we could find" ????? NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. Those people make too much money for that to happen.

 

Seems like you need to read some more eh. There are many threads in the past, what you think your the only person who thought about the idea of crossing some large apbts into some other so-called proven banddog? There are many threads to view and go over, this has been done before, thats why they perfer you to search before asking something straight up. Truth of the matter is, the chances of you getting your hands on something so large is rare. Not to mention the dogs themselfs. So you go with the next best thing 60-75lbs whatever. We're only trying to help. I had a aligator bitch last year, she's 15 months now and monster at 68lb...damn larger for average apbt

 

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=200470 here is my boy he has freeman blood from preacher,I was looking for info. on the freeman line,found it was out of texas and preacher boy was bred by Mr. freeman not eddington.And they wasn't bred for show or hog hunting but they are being used now.They say the freeman dogs were game as he..

 

their are breeders of large game apbt's in the ranges i was referring to. I have the web page addresses to kennels who breed these along with their pedigrees so I know for sure that they exist.

 

Two things. VERY rare. AND, (correct me if I'm wrong here) not very effective as match dogs. My guess is when you get up in size around 100 lbs(or close) there is a drastic fall off in ability for whatever reason. Since catchweight is 55 some odd pounds if big dogs had a huge advantage you'd hear about and see more of them doing well.

If greatly increased weight and size made for a better match dog then you would see more purebred large dogs so the increased size must not work that well or it would not be rare. I don't doubt that with selective breeding over a period of 15 or so years you could breed 100lb. dogs out of a line of dogs that were catch weight to begin with. But I doubt you'd get many match quaity dogs from those breedings.

Just seems like common sense.

 

Well i would not go as far as to say the big dogs didn't have the ability...it was more so, they were just too strong and too much to handle for the handlers. thats why they started breeding em smaller in the first place...also the Presa Caniro was also bred for fighting in the pits, and they really are those big dogs your talking about....100 + lbs. so go figure....all in all, size doesn't matter, nor does how it's bred. As stated a billion times before, "papers don't make the dog"...so, if you have a big dog and its game, then that should be ALL that matters! Love it, feed it, end of story.

 

Yea but the Presa Canarios are slow and often take breaks : /

 

It all depends what you want...if you want a dog for man stopping power....a Presa or Cane Corso is your dog...I have seen Presas work in person...and let me tell you I can you a baseball bat and you would drop it and run...

A big pit is worthless it is bred for looks....a well bred game pit is not going to be a good guard dog...it will be of normal size..normal looking ...normal head...

some of the gamest ..tightest dogs i had looked like skin and bones...mutts...not to muscular...not too big of a head..ripped though....small....until you put a dog in front of them and they cry to be let go....

So why do you want a big pit? To impress people? To intimidate them? To walk it and look cool?

 

Bully Kuttas are hard game dogs and they range from 120-200 #'s and fight in the desert heat for sometimes upwards of an hour. These same dogs I have seen be very agile and show alot of endurance even at 200 #'s. So the myth that an apbt will lose alot of ability at the weights of 80-100#'s is just not true. For instance AB's at those weights have tons of ability.

 

I have been researching Bully Kuttas for a few months now so this I will say about them......

The Bully Kutta is not yet considered a "breed" as you and I know it. It is labeled a Bully Kutta if it "works". The label "Bully Kutta" is given to a "type" of dog not a breed. This is why the bully kutta has a vast range of look, color, and size. In addition, their pedigree is still being crossed with other breeds in order to improve their performance. Depending on the area you live in, you will find sub-"breeds" of this bully kutta. Meaning, each "town" may have their own Bully Kutta type dogs that look nothing like "bully kutta" type dogs from another town.

Confusing? in essence, this breed is not yet established. It it still seen as a type not a breed. Bully Kuttas are still crossed with the Tosa Ken and APBT among other breeds. Hopefully, country stability and economic improvement in the area will help those "dogmen" better (and standardize) this type of dog.

 

Typically the larger the breed and the heavier the muscle the less stamina the dog has. Not always, but almost.

I really don't see either how such a large leap in size could have been accomplished in such a short ammount of time without cross breeding. That is a difference of twice the size and even if a freak dog was born out of a litter at 100 lbs. (unlikely and would be a genetic defect) than it most certainly does not mean that dog would produce large offspring. I know that Dogmen/dogwomen in the older days may have been more committed and knowledgable but that does not mean they did not sometimes breed for the wrong reasons (great, new larger dogs) and it does not mean they did not cross breed to get what they wanted. It also does not mean that they did not lie on papers like so many people do today. We really respect the old timers but that does not mean they were ALL respectable, even if they had some serious dogs. If you had a chihuahua breeder, a dog that weighs about 6 lbs and then there was a 13 pounder breeder, I don't see how without something being mixed in there.

 

There have always been large dogs. For instance colby's pinscher, plumbers alligator, southern kennels' mayday, etc. The list goes on. It is a known fact that some breeders such as gary hammonds have been struggling for years to keep their dogs small. By nature dogs will increase in size especially if you line breed big dogs with big dogs. There are many theories as to why old dogmen kept their dogs small. For example, it was easier to condition a smaller dog; a smaller dog is more economic and efficient, and low maintence; also it was easier to hide a small dog than a bigger dog whenever the law raided dog fights. This is just my opinion.

 

Rocky's Human do you know shah? If so he could correct a little bit about what you posted. You are correct in that their are many different types ob bully kutta but they are classified under different names and their is a real paki bully kutta. Shah is from pakistan and is the foremost english speaking expert we have on the breed. If you would like to know more pm me and i can give you his contact info.

 

sure tosas are crossed by some but overall serious paki bully breeders consider the tosa inferior for various reasons. First the tosa cannot handle the heat like a paki bully and second they tend to quit fighting. I'm not saying all tosas do this but a great number do. You can cross reference my claim by doing a quick search and watching tosa fight videos,, sometimes they become disinterested and simply quit fighting. Also I have access to many videos and pictures of Bully Kuttas in action, including pictures of a Bully Kutta beating a tosa.