Breeding outside of the APBT?

Thank you. I recently talked with an old timer, that said you culd make a german shepard into a pit bull if you had enough time. Meaning selectively bred for the traits that makes dog capable of doing the job. I'm not sure I totally agree, but I could see it using some bulldog blood. I like your example about different strains, but I wouldn't call them a different breed of dog. some time back there was talk about a new DNA test to determine the genetic make-up of a dog, I wonder if they tested different strains of pit bulls what it would tell them. I know that if you buy a puppy from a well know breeder and then breed it when it's grown, even if you breed it to another pup from the same breeder you don't have what they have, unless they would have made the same decision to breed those two as you did. Choices change the outcome. The original breeder might not have liked one or both of the dogs that you got from him, and wouldn't have bred them. SO you made the choice it's now your results that will be seen. I'm not saying someone shouldn't give credit where it's due, but that you can make crosses out of the same stock and end up with a different outcome. Does that make any sense? Mouser

 

Respect a true
Thoroughbred !

 

Honestly, after re-reading the posts, I have concluded that you want a dog for hunting small game, am I correct? If this is true, I really think you would enjoy a Rat Terrier. I have one, and if I can find the pics of him hunting, I think you would be surprised. I have one packed away in a box of old pics in the attic that I'll have to find. It is of him chasing down a rabbit and tackling it. These dogs are great hunters if you get one from a breeder that works their dogs. I have seen them and JRTs rustle up badgers, as well.

Is this something you are looking to accomplish in your breedings? I really think you should at least give one of these breeds a chance. If you still aren't satisfied, I'm out of ideas on what you want accomplished.

 

No, I was talking about two different subjects, you brought in the hunting terriers, I was just giving an example about size. Who was the breeder that recommended it? West Coast? Try to find "World of Working Terriers" by Hardcombe (sp?) It's a far better book, also check out Terrierman.com loads of info, if your looking to get into working terriers. Mouser

 

You win, LOL! But do me a favor and look up Lord Orford in 1776, he founded the first public coursing club in Swaffham,Norfolk. I disagree about the terrier blood and wiry hair. The books say that Parson Russel didn't want any slick haired terriers, cause he thought that meant they had bull blood, which shows that a good dose of bull blood can straighten them curly locks. A couple of breedings and you would have smaller dogs with slick hair. I'm not saying that they didn't all have wiry hair at one time, just that the could have been added to bulldog, and the offspring not have wiry hair, fair enough?

 

Yes and no, let me ask you, why do you have your particular dogs? Because they are what suits you. I've had rat terriers when I was a kid, they are neat little dogs, but not what I'm looking for. I've also tried fiest, and curdogs, and they weren't it either. Why are people making OEB's, because they want a bulldog that don't die when going out for a walk. Well why don't they just get a pit bull? They are after all the real bulldogs, because that's not what they want. If I ever get what I'm after I'll give you one for free if you want it.

 

Nope, BlackStone...I won't be getting any new dogs for a while...but when I do, I'll look into that book. Thanks.

 

That's a new one to me, but if you don't mind edit the link off. Mouser

 

http://www.donovank-9.com/donovanpinscherstatement.html
I thought you guys might find this interesting. This guy crossed several breeds to create a dog to his liking. He found that what he wanted wasn't found in just one breed so he felt he needed to tinker to get what he wanted.

 

I've seen that site before, look like nice functional dogs. Mouser

 

If you look after plausible infos looks before 1750. After this time many untruthfulness was spread, the labour pains of the exhibit breeding began . From 1850 everybody has written what and nearly nobody really had notion,it was mixed a lot and only the working races survived by the cleansing strength of her genetic task.
Later Societies for the prevention of cruelty to animals were founded to which insanity began....

 

hahahaha lmao

man u gotta love them americans.. haha

You're damn right I disapprove lol

i just love the accent

 

wouldn't mind having one with working background

 

just wanna clear a few things up,are you gonna breed any of the mixed dogs? can you realistically keep all the litter? if so i dnt see a problem if you were breeding mutts and trying to sell "designer dogs" then i would have a problem or if you said you wanted to create a new breed id have a problem but if its a one off, the pups will be spayed/neutered and your keeping all the pups yourself and not referring to them as apbt's(unless they really kick ass you have to give them the credit lol) then thats fine cos your not diluting the stock of apbt's just your stock and your willing to shoulder the possible burden of culling if necessary or just dealing with a litter of mediocre dogs..... that being said it could work out fine and end up with good dogs just remember though you could probably save yourself a lot of hassle(and abuse lol) by getting a pure breed of small apbt's or staffordshire bull terriers or patterdales.good luck

 

certanly not everyone agrees but to me performance is like war, anything goes.
a person should be able to do what he wants, if we like it or not is our business but aint our business to judge other people choices.
from what i seen, there are lot's of mixing breeds especially for hunting, ones tastes are diferent from other's needs and some times "rules" are broken to get a "total package" suiting someones specific needs, if "rules" must be broken then be it, anyway all breeds been mutts at a time or another.

its not the same thing but like paperd dogs vs unpaperd dogs theme..

(note that im talking about working dogs not breeds itself nor "creating breeds")

ps : see last pic in page 4 of http://hurricanekennels.com/patterdale.html
are they "pure breed"? to me they are working dogs

 

Of course the old tymer is correct. Select/cull select/cull select/cull

and on it goes.

It's not rocket science just a case of having the time to test and select, and being prepared to be a cur killer. That was easy in Georgian England when dogs were tested on a huge scale, unimaginable nowadays. However if you are going to breed fighting dogs then makes it easier (gives you a head start) if you start with breeds that are not all cur blood like the "pit bull" types.

Dog men of the past had their feet firmly grasped in reality. Probably because many of them were involved in agriculture on one level or the other and understood the basic laws of genetics selection and breeding: and were not blinded by some weird idea of the pitbull having some sort of supernatural power.

test/select/cull = Bob's your uncle (with a bit of fine tuning, basic genetic know how, and common sense thrown in)

It's no different or anymore difficult than breeding cows for milk production pigs for the table or horses for the track. It just sounds more glamorous.

 

1920's = select/cull/select/cull............

2000's = select/spay/select/neuter......

 

ROFLMAO

hmm never even thought of the spay/neuter option Damn I'm old fashioned but then I am getting on a bit in years! That is very progressive thinking!:eek:

 

Then why the hell would you want an APBT for then ? Weight pulling ? Companion dog ? Give me a break! lol