Breeding to a well bred cur?

Thanks gringo I am glad you see it that way at least you still acknowledge them as dogs who did the best they could even if they weren't up to the standards you had hoped for which is the risk you take when breeding performance dogs. I understand not wanting to breed to a cur when you have the choice of breeding to dogs who didn't quit. If I had to pick between a deep game dog and a hard dog I would pick the dog with gameness as I feel in the end that is what will keep the dog going regardless of any obstacle the dog may face the dog will go out dead game if it has to.

 

go to brandt's kennel , there is a nice interview with gary hammonds about bullyson . i don't know how to copy it.

 

Here it is:

Bullyson and Eli by Gary Hammonds
In a recent conversation, the question of BULLYSON'S Gameness came up and I promised to elaborate on this is an article that would probably only add fuel to the controversy. The exact statement was why anyone would breed to a dog as extensively as BULLYSON was, when he was not dead game? As an outsider of sorts, with no ax to grind one way or the other, I'll try to shed new light on the subject.
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In a recent conversation, the question of BULLYSON'S Gameness came up and I promised to elaborate on this is an article that would probably only add fuel to the controversy.The exact statement was why anyone would breed to a dog as extensively as BULLYSON was, when he was not dead game? As an outsider of sorts, with no ax to grind one way or the other, I'll try to shed new light on the subject.

To set the stage, BULLYSON and ELI JR. was an extraordinary pair of dogs. They were questionably head and shoulders above the competition of their day. Up until then, almost invariably, the old timers thought the barn storming, hard biting, Stifle eating dogs were curs, curs being dogs that were not Game. The new breed of dogmen to emerge during this era appreciated a dog that could get the job done in short order and even some of the old timers were beginning to change their thinking to varying degrees. Still even before his loss, most questioned BULLY’S Gameness, but in spite of this he had been bred to some of the best bitches in the country, thus a pretty solid foundation.

I feel fortunate to have seen BULLYSON win and lose. His win over SIRHAN was not as devastating as most expected, probably because SIRHAN was a better dog that he had been given credit for being.


In his loss, everyone saw it differently. As a student of the breed I don’t believe I overlooked any factor of all that have been mentioned. BULLY losing to his son BENNY BOB was not only ironic, but sad. BENNY BOB seemed to neutralize and outdo his stale looking Sire’s best moves. Before the match’s conclusion, it was obvious BULLY could not win. An amateur could see BULLY slipping in and out of Shock as the end drew near. His loss left the crowd scratching their heads in disbelief. The old warrior was laid under a shade tree on that hot July day as the boys from Houston and San Antonio surveyed the scene. Years later, Maurice still held he had lost to a rub, which could have been the case.

Before continuing, we must all agree that some of those dogs sired by BULLYSON were great, to say the least. There was BENNY BOB who lost to JIMMY BOOTS in a close one that could have went either way. Ralph, the man who conditioned and handled JIMMY BOOTS told me later he would have been proud to bring either dog home. STOMPER, BULLYSON JR., and JEREMIAH were some of the ones I saw that were worth feeding. The one thing that does stand out in my mind about those BULLYSON pups, some of which were outstanding, while others were only average or below, percentage of Game dogs among them were as high as most families being bred at the time.

Almost all great dogs are questioned by some as not being Dead Game. BULLY and ELI JR. were no exceptions. To me, Gameness is some what relative to many factors or combination of these: time, place, environment, condition of the animal and type of stress are all factors that will check a dog’s oil. Many dogs have shown to be short of Gameness at one time and come back to show Dead Game at a later date, while others have shown exceptional Gameness one day and later quit cold.

In a conversation with Maurice back in the seventies I told him I was apprehensive about using the BULLY stuff in my breeding program, even after his urging. Hell son, he said, you breed that to those ALLIGATOR dogs and you’ll have the roughest S.O.B.’s that ever came down the pike. He hesitated as he anticipated my next question, and went on to say, Now you may lose some Gameness, but you will probably never know it if they are as rough as I figured they will be.

We have all heard the Bobby Hall stories about having to chunk BULLY his feed and getting on cars and climbing trees to get away from him. If he had been mine during these times, he would have never had to worry about BENNY BOB killing him. This, too, is a unique situation as BULLY did not produce a high percentage of maneaters, to my knowledge.

Game or not, I believe I’m conservative in saying that no dog since DIBO has had a greater impact on the Bulldog of today than BULLYSON. Throw ELI JR. in the equation and there is no doubt these two brothers changed a great deal of how dogmen everywhere looked at and feel about the greatest breed on earth today.

 

"Wouldn't it make more sense to breed to Midnight Cowboy" it also makes sense to breed to what made cowboy. mike jordan never produced any nba players. but his daddy sure did a good job. "Ben first of all you will never really know if Midnight Cowboy is off of Bullyson" well shit gringo you can say that about every dog you didnt breed or see bred. "Wouldn't it make more sense to breed to the dog that wasn't a cur and produced more consistently. the dogs only go sa far as the man behind them and consistncy will hold to that.

 

bullyson not started his own bloodline he started three or four different strains and there is a reason men like carver baker davis clemmons boudreaux, hall FB, the rebel and many others used the eli line of dogs mainly bullyson

 

Boze That is couse they Used there dogs, And Knew what dogs could win and what made them.

 

bet the fuck i wouldnt

 

are u serious two dogs cant be mated and after that show dead game

 

the real truth is...if you lookin in all famous dogs ped you will find out not one but many curr dogs so that kind of post to me is a big waste of time.

 

but if u look at his offspring every champion he produced was out a diferent liters to different bitches except the one to honeybunch and she had ten pups and 4 was ch's but out the 4 ch's 2 proved to be curs so out of 10 pups 2 proved to be game dogs thats not a good %

 

you sure 2 out of 10 proved to be game dogs... or 2 out of 4 CH proved to be game dogs...

 

any way you cut the shit 4 ch dogs off a litter is good no great! I guess yall are throwin chs every time lol. WTF ever this is a waste of time , whats the saying a smart man puts a pipe in his mouth to think a dumb ass just shoves something in his mouth.

 

lmao that shit was so fuckin halarious. this is the funniest things ive heard today

 

Yes they did and there is a reason of ton of other folks did not use it.

 

You know you are right alot of people didnt use it, but Most that stayed in started crossing with it. And To be honest. I used to hate the boyles back when people used to really be dog men befor the laws got real hard. but it wasent so much the boyles dogs I loved the dogs I even started useing them some my self. What it was I didnt like all the nut riders that used the shit. but The dogs were bad ass, But you can belive I hunted dogs from the whole east coast to run them off, lol. The point is you can say this or that, but fact is the strain works and its all about the dogs and the hard truth is some of the best in the world are those strains, and ther used to be a place to stop all the talk about it and show the truth, and too bad there aint no more we could shut this thread down fast LOL

 

No one bred to Bullyson after he quit. Who bred to Bo after he quit? Why did the very people most involved with the dog not breed to him afterwards? why was he put down by them?
They may have known what dogs to use and what made them but they themselves didn't breed to a cur, just a thought.
Now a days I look more to what a person does than what he says.
I don't care how good a dog is, I couldn't sleep at night knowing I backed up a game bitch to a cur, probably couldn't even keep my food down.

 

LOL Well if you knew he was going to quit when he did would you still breed him knowing that at some point he would quit? I for one am glad he was bred even if I knew he would quit at a later point and time during his career. He produced Honey Bunch and a few other good dogs so I am glad he was bred without him we wouldn't have the those other great dogs who never quit.

 

I'm sure there would still be plenty of good apbts without him lol

 

I'm sure there would be alot less dogs that stop if he wasn't ever bred to also. The dogs off him were some of the most mainstream dogs in the dog game anyone and there momma could get some of that blood. So most of the men getting the dogs were new to the dig game getting easy wins into other no name dog men. Jmo

 

the reason other ppl did not use is either they already had lines that worked or they could not get it, you can also add to that list mcnasty and hhand townsend and cates