Breeding to a well bred cur?

any dog can be made a good dog maybe the pups just had good owners

 

Have you ever noticed that in all reviews of the great curs of the past that the quit is brought to our attention of a great beating the dog took when it quit? At times it can get to the point the dog showed almost deadgame. Let's not ever get confused here. The cur that quit was never to the point of the Deadgame dog. The Deadgame dog did not and would not make it. The dead game dog had taken itself to the limits far past that of the dog that quit. The dog that quit is still here breeding, the Deadgame dog never made it from the show site. In my opinion there is a world of difference between the two and the waters should never be muddied on the subject. The Dog that quit may be talented; he may have great wind and may be a superb worker. He may produce solid performance dogs but he is not a Gamedog and should not be referred to as one. The dog showed he was the opposite when Scratch in turn and contest rules were applied. The dog quit and that is it. We use these rules such as the Cajun Rules to hopefully determine the Game dog of the two not the most talented. We are also aware that winning does not equate to game and never has. So here goes the final rant So Yes!! Call that dog an incredible match machine, a great producer, brings home the bacon, a killer on four legs. Hell call him an athlete with great abilities, a work horse during the keep. But please leave out those puppy-peddling, Stud-fee competition expressions such as: Gamey, Pit Game, Deep Game etc out of the equation. In my opinion these expressions are only there to elevate the status of a cur to a form of GAME only for the purpose to pull in profits. The truth is just fine and will not hurt anything. A few examples to illustrate the point that truth is fine would be these dogs, Snooty, Rascal, Barney and the list goes on. These dogs have all quit and we all know it, never the less people are still using the blood and or looking for the blood. Never let another man tell us what a Game dog is, let him show us.

 

Nope, i havent been in the game for 25 years! But this information isnt a secret either. Now i'm sure there were tons of brood dogs that could perform, but there are just as many that couldnt, and were still bred and produced some damn good dogs. Now i'm not saying that no one tested brood stock back in the day, but many didnt care as long as they came primarily from working stock.
Lopasay's Buster Rom
Carver's Goldie
Mcleod's Susie Q Gal
Marlowes's Brandy Girl
Dogs from the past that were used as brood stock and not touched much, if at all.

 

Now what of the dog that took a two hour beating, quit and lived, can we call the dog a Cur. I will but I do not have any evil or bad connotations with the word Cur. It simply means the dog is not Game much like a white dog is not black. It does not mean the dog is not a good show dog, it only means the dog is like most bulldogs born. Very, very few bulldogs born are Game anyhow, so why be ashamed that a dog is not game??? On the other hand if one wears their ego on their sleeve like a badge then of course referring to their dog as a Cur after it quit past two hours is gonna rub them the wrong way. Hell we call our opponents dog a Cur before we step over the wall lol..We don’t come to lose, we come to win and generally that is because the other side quits. So I suppose it all boils down to how we want to accept the word Cur. If we choose to add a load of baggage to the word that matters little, then we are going to be upset if our dog is refured to as one, or we can just look at it in a simple form and say “your point is”, or “but I like him, so I am gonna keep feeding him, don’t worry none, he will not bother you in any way as he lives 2000 miles away from you.” Meaning there are many replies back that can be made as to why one wants to keep a dog that another believes is a Cur. The bottom line is “you are the one feeding him; you are the one that is going to be housing and feeding the dog. You are the one that is going to have to understand: no matter how well your animal performs, somebody somewhere is gonna believe the dog a Cur.

 

i dont look at a 2 hr dog the same way i would a 6 min one that also quit in a schooling roll

 

were you there........or did you just hear

 

that is the situation that this thread is based on..... "would you breed to a 6 min cur?"

 

you got back to that before i could edit it woody lol...
i agree with that statment you made. but in reference to said dog mentioned was the Q?
sorry for that:p

 

i just thought i would highlite this in answer to the questions put forth
that is all im having to say on the matter.

 

I decided to ask the question based on the information in a few old magazines and letters I read fairly recently where the fact was brought up that Nigger had been curred out in 6 minutes and had allegedly previously in a schooling roll...... I wasn't there and as far as I know the story could be complete horseshit... but just going by the reported happenings is what I based the original question on.


But again... I think its hard to say one way or another because we know the dog in question DID produce and produce very well...

What I really wanted to know was if you'd breed a dog... not with the hindsight 20/20 as it is with Nigger.... but would you breed a dog simply because of the way he is bred KNOWING he quit in 6 minutes and might have quit in a schooling roll

 

Would you ncprisonguard? Like I said I would. For those who would not breed to said dog, what if you were offered a dog off of him that had proved and produced? Would you decline or would you take it? Since you wouldn't breed to him you shouldn't want one from him since he is a cur right. Most don't know the full story behind the dogs in the line that there running anyway, so if you did know the full story would you still run that line since you have a cur or two in the first four?

 

i just have to say this
was the 6 min. quit in a test roll

cause they might have ment the owner of picked up
you heard how them oldschools did it
start slow and work ya way
theres been stories to where people may not have hard tested a key dog
maby the dog was one of a kind
but he had to at least want it
maby the owner seen every thing he had to see
who knows what they were thinking

 

yeh mac, its a little like the jeep line of dogs and dogs down from him, plenty cold dogs but people still post up them peds and i think a good deal of those people dont know the story on most of them.
all lines contain what some would consider game, cur, cold etc. personal preferance and what one see's in a dog at the time all make up the circle.
speculation gets us noware.

schooling is just that, schooling....

 

this is a tough question and one that me personally find hard to give a definitive answer on. when you consider everything like any dog can quit under the right circumstances, then it changes somewhat.
though saying that I probably wound'nt in direct answer to the question...at least till that dog has been tested some more, if he quit again then no.

my point is there could be a million reasons why a dog quit in 6 minutes, that may not mean hes a cur, he might go 2hrs next time proving gameness but if he didnt? then no.

 

Seems to me that there is 2 things getting intangled that shouldn't be!

#1. Nigger ROM

&

#2. 6 min cur

It's my understanding that Nigger ROM never quit and was merely not match quality himself but good enough to breed off of.
It's also my understanding that Nigger Rom was rolled into his son Tiger Dan and eventho Nigger took a killing, he never hesitated on the scratch and went back for more killing to take. Oh by the way, Tiger Dan is the sire to Pit General who is considered by many to be the best and devastatingest dog they had ever seen, that's most likely why he got stolen.
That makes Pit General a double bred Nigger ROM dog (Tiger Dan x Spooky).

The whole rumor thing about Nigger ROM being a cur/quitter has been long established to come down from Don Maloney because he was jealous of Danny Burton's close relationship with Tudor, and because Burton had gotten good dogs from Tudor aswell.



breed to a 6 minute cur?!
Well,......... I guess not!
But, then again what do I know and what do you all know for that matter. That 6 minute cur could just produce litter after litter of devastating deep game individuals!

 

Me personally... NO. I wouldn't. But if someone had offered me a pup off of him and said "Hey man.. here's a free pup... get him looked at and see if he works for you." Then yeah I'd probably take him up on it and see how the dog would work out. But I wouldn't want to take the chance on breeding directly to the 6 minute cur and hope he didn't throw a litter like himself.

 

Hindsight is a great thing, as Slim said, if you were pit side looking at this yourself I think 99.9% of us wouldnt touch it. Sure back in the day I dont believe it would have been too hard to find a proven dog so why take the chance on a 6min quitter.

The 0.10% was left for the crazies :rolleyes:

 

Many good dogs will prove this way of thinking to be wrong, there are dogs that won't quit under any circumstances.......... Hence where the name Dead Game came from.

 

Yes I understand completely what you are saying AGK, sometimes I think too deeply. I mean a dog can only prove dead game once under one set of circumstances and the ones that have in history [hypothetically speaking] get my full admiration for it, my remark was misplaced.