Breeding to a well bred cur?

Im not one to breed to a 3 year old myself, and im not one to breed dogs that havent earned it either, once a dog has earned the right to be bred the last thing I want to do is throw it back into the mix. Why would you risk ruining a good ol brood dog when he/she has produced what it is your looking for? That would be like taking an old racehorse (who has proven his worth on the track in his prime and is a producer of racehorces) to the kentucky derby and shooting him after he doesnt keep up. If you leave no doubt in your own mind about wether a dog is a gamedog or a curdog and have the confidence in the dog to breed it, its like pushing all in in a poker game, maybe they will come up all aces or maybe your pair of twos will get hammered by a couple of kings... Either way your all in.

NGK

 

I think that the younger man will breed more towards the harder dogs and count gameness less than a dogs ability to overpower. This will make the person go through a number of dogs as he has a good number of them quit on him. But even the hardest of dogs will eventually meet one who is able to bypass all its attacks and the person starts to realize that one can't always overpower and that more is needed.
As time goes on, a person starts to realize that as long as there is gameness there is a chance to win, but once that's gone it's over. As long as there is gameness, you can always come back and try again, but what's the point if its a cur?

While it is true that not always is the best pit dog of a litter turns out to be the best producer, I found that in "general" it is the best 1 or 2 of a litter that also end up producing better as well. I know this looks like a very simple statement but it holds a very deep truth in it. I have found not only in my dogs but also in other peoples that it is their best 1 or 2 dogs that end up producing the most consistent for them in the end. The statement involves the deep rooted link between performance and production and carries back to evolution and how this breed was created.

 

i had a very reputable guy tell me a game dog with no mouth has no business in the ring, having a really good game dog that cant deal out damage is no better then having a rank cur that jumps the wall in 10 mins

 

I guess that very reputable guy never saw a dog that could dance and stay out of trouble long enough to frustrate the hard mouthed dog and make it quit on all fours. Everyone is entitled to their opinion granted but anyone I know thats "Very Reputable" has seen more than their fair share of amazing feats performed by the gamedog, mouth or not.

NGK

 

Gameness is the hardest trait to get passed on.....all other attributes are physical and can be added. The strong mind isnt so easy to maintain as all real dogmen know. If so everyone would have an Ace.

Sounds like a hustle in the making to me. LOL

 

There is a huge difference between having your dog drag itself across making everyone there skip a heartbeat and having your dog put down a couple of hard bites then leave you standing there with your ego between your legs. One is definately better than the other, I think whoever said that it's no better is wrong in my opinion.

With one good outcross you can put back that mouth into the gameness, but just see how long it takes you to put back the gameness into the mouth.

 

I often thought the same. But If you own the game dog, and outcross to my rough dog and the offspring have what you are looking for... Well my stock just added ability to yours, but yours added gameness to mine as it is a 50/50 cross and can be introduced into either or our family of dogs. To say it is hard to add is to say your dogs will not successfully pass the trait to mine, which would defeat the purpose of you outcrossing at all.

 

Correct me if im wrong but I am reading this that you are assuming that the hard mouthed dog is always going to be a cur. What I took from Gringo's post is that if the game strain loses mouth a cross to another game strain with mouth will bring it back faster than you could obtain gameness from a cur strain...

Maybe im reading more between the lines or maybe ive talked with Gringo enough that I understand his way of thinking better, either way thats how I read his statement.

NGK

 

No not assuming, it wasn't established what the other dog possess other than mouth so it is not known. Unless by a good outcross to add mouth, he meant also game.

 

Well I know gringo and if it isn't game its flower feed so it was me that made the assumption on what he said, my apologies.

NGK

 

Venom, how did you become a "dick hugger", its under your name in your post's. LOL!

 

Talkin shit about the mods got me that title.
Some real comedians over here lol

 

If the shoe fits wear it!!! Lmao im kiddin bro!

 

LOL,, Jester do you realize how many years it's been that we know what the other means even if he doesn't? lmao!

But you are right, first off the most important rule is never breed to a known cur no matter what it has done or what traits it carries.
Second rule is that once the cur is known, get it the fuck out of there! lol Now sometimes a dog is not known as a cur and may even show game in situations so it is bred and later shows to be a cur. Well in that case it's time to break out that fine toothed comb and go through every one looking deep for that cur. I didn't own a comb and had to go out and buy one lol.

Venom I think you view this as a contest to see who's dog did what in some outcrossing but that is not the way to look at it. As you put it, "your" dog didn't add anything and neither did "mine", at most they each contributed some of their traits. If an outcross works then it is due to the genes "complementing" each other to form a more complete package. Also, mouth is not ability in any sense of the word. In fact, it is usually the softer mouthed dogs that will have greater ability compared to the hard biting ones since they must rely on that ability to keep them alive whereas the hard biting dog can do well without that trait. If an outcross works then it is due to both dogs and no one gets any more credit for it than the other because without both, there would not be those dogs that worked.

I should point out as Jester (NGK) said that because a dog is hard doesn't mean it is a cur. What I mean by breeding for mouth is that you will sacrifice some of the higher percentage of game dogs in your litters by breeding to a line or family whose percentages are not that high in order to regain some of the lost traits due to familial degeneration. This sounds easy but believe me after you have "purified" your yard of that cur gene the hardest thing in the world is to even consider the risk of putting that back in.

You will go through a lot more dogs when your goal is to breed for gameness than you will go through when you only breed for hard biting competitors. Try it and then come talk to me about what's harder to breed for.


** I have heard of tree huggers but what's a dick hugger? Venom are you trying to save the penis? lol

 

hello gringo

so what would your rather breed too, a cur out a whole game litter

or a game dog out of a whole cur litter

: )

 

If its an all cur litter their would be no gamedogs and if its an all game litter there would be no cur dogs, that question cancelled itself out, lol.

Jeep was the only gamedog in his litter and alot of people bred to jeep...

NGK

 

Was Ch Swetman's Holly a cur as well?

 

6sN7s, I have already stated that I would not ever breed to a known cur so it doesn't matter how many game dogs were in its litter as I would not breed to it.
My question to you is,, how on earth did that cur dog in that mostly game litter manage to stay alive after it had quit?????? I'm sorry but I would not even bother to look at any dogs in a yard where there was a cur dog standing on chain being fed, no matter how good they were because that shows me the type of dogman in charge and it is not "my" kind of dogman.

In response to breeding to a game dog out of a mostly cur litter, I could see where someone may do such a breeding, there is nothing wrong with it, it meets all the criteria needed to breed to a dog as far as it not being a cur. In a case like that it would depend on the person who is wanting the breeding and what his/her objectives are with their dogs. Speaking personally, I put a high value on consistency in breeding so in that example, if anything, that dog was consistent in producing curs so I would not breed to it and on the other hand if the "family" it comes from is known to produce consistently game dogs then that dog that produced mostly curs has shown that it is not producing consistently the traits of his family so that means that it would also be cut from the list of breeding possibilities.

You know, I just don't see how anyone could ever breed to a cur no matter how well bred it was. There are far too many good and game dogs out there to settle for something less and in the end even if you have to pay travel expenses and a stud fee it will still cost you less than breeding to that nearby well bred cur because in the end after you have to raise and feed all those dogs you will have spent a lot more and you will end up with a lot less. I am saving my pennies.

 

I am assuming that all those that would breed to a well bred cur would also be keeping that entire litter right? I mean.... you aren't going to be selling that crap to anyone are you????? ,,, ok that's what I thought lol.

 

u know why that was bcause jeeps sire was a well bred cur