Bulldog EDITION - Richard F. Stratton

Well I guess that it could be said that there could be Terrier blood in todays A.P.B.T but not Terrier influence,the blood would not normaly have been mixed on purpose,but more on a whim,since the dog that survived the Roman fighting era was small and they were being crossed with terriers to help the terriers Kill Rats and formidable badgers ,being they were relatively the same size ,some Bull baiters may have let some Bull and Terriers in on the Bull baiting action,not to help the original bulldog, but just out of curiosity or mistake.So there is possibly terrier blood floating around in Game bred A.P.B.T blood ,but not influence because 1 The Terrier is not game due to the fact that its quarry is not formidable enough to keep it from resorting to help from its pack, or utalizing team work,to get the job done,before Extreme fatigue and extreme physical trauma or Gameness can become a factor.2 The dog that survived the Roman fighting arenas,although large by todays A.P.B.T standards, was small considering the size of some of the dogs that went into it, durring that time,and after bull baiting was outlawed became even smaller,not as common theory dictates that larger Bulldogs were needed to break a bulls spirit,but because Rules became more complex and dogs started being matched according to weight,where as because of bull baiting events, weight had no cause for existance for a bull out weighd the A.P.B.T by almost a ton.as far as large Bulldogs being needed to break a bulls spirit goes all I can say is would a 300 lb man be more likely to break a horse or a lighter nimbler man who should stay on longer.

 

Your dribbleing a load of crap......

 

Point 1 doesn't make sense, if the "quarry was not formidable enough", why would a terrier have to resort to teamwork?

As i said already, by your definition of "game", you could certainly class a lot of terriers game.

Read up on a couple of rescue's online, maybe you can learn a little a terrier goes through.... I await your responce......

 

WERE STILL WAITING ON HIM TO ANSWER ALL THE OTHER Q's...ARE YA GONE TO THE LIBARY T-tend.....LOL..LOL...

 

Much like Terriers, ancient Roman fighting dogs were not bred or allowed existance in human society because they were charismatic or charming they were allowed into society because they got the job done,Getting the job done meant that the dogs were successfull in killing the formidable beasts it was set upon,of course in ancient Roman fighting arenas these were not one on one affairs,and the dogs needed to work as a pack to get the job done,however each member needed to make a solo move sooner or later,a move wich could leave it with a severe life threatining infliction,not the type of infliction a fox or a ground hog or even a formidable badger would leave but the type of a infliction a Bear,lion ,or bull might leave,of course set upon such formidable animals Roman fighting dogs would be more likely to recieve such inflictions, then not,however survivors would endure these inflictions and kill its prey, or get the job done as it were,So the dog used in ancient Roman Fighting arenas developed a high pain threshold that encouraged a Roman fighting dog to make a solo move that would help get the job done,a high pain threshold that only Lions bears and bulls could cause.

 

I dont mean to say that Terriers are not brave,even a casual observer to Terriers,such as I,must aknowledge the bravery ,or the prey drive,of the Terrier that enables it to overcome its closterfobia and crawl deep into a dark hole where visibility is nill,and cave ins are possible,then to confront and engage in combat, with anything from a poisonous snake,long fanged,long clawed marsupials,wild canids,with long healthy canines,however Terriers like all dogs are descended from the wolf,and all domestic breeds breeds were seperrated into its certain breed,utalizing the hunting traits of the wolf wich was detection by sight, hearing and smelling then came stalk,chase,or herd then of course fight and kill,in order to feed large wolf packs the wolf had to kill large formidable prey such as bison Elk and deer of course they didnt always pick the biggest and healthiest ones but if they were on the brink of starving they would have to try,of course grabbing and holding on to the formidable prey untill it gave in,or phsycologicaly admitted defeat and then working on breaking through the thick for and hyde as well as the hyde being loose so as a fang cannot easily pierce its flesh,was more effective in killing the prey then just,bitting the large formidable prey whene ever it was distracted by another wolf,or a pack member,and hoping to kill it in its defensive stance,Terriers,being descendants of the wolf,would logicaly posses these genes,however unlike A.P.B.T,the formidability of the prey that Terriers were seperrated into their particular breed for,allows for the team work trait of the wolf,to surface, in order to kill its prey be the pack member a man with a long handled tool or another Terrier,coming in from the other end of the quarrys den.The formidabilty of the prey of ancient Roman fighting dogs,was so great that the pain threshold of the dog that came from this era would enable it to bypass the teamwork trait of the wolf,and attempt to grab and hold onto its formidable prey,regardless of wether help was coming in the form of man or other dogs,in order to kill the prey,or get the job done,this trait was very usefull in Bull baiting contrary to popular considering artist dipictions, the Bulldogs were not expected to kill the Bull but rather to braek its will so although dipictions show four or five Bulldogs attacking a Bull it would only take one to break the bulls will ,of course bulls were just not baited to be tamed some were baited for amusememnt and in such events the bulls death may have been a requirement,wich is why artist dipictions show four or more Bulldogs being set upon a Bull.its all theory thing is pointing out where the theory may be wrong and coming up with a better one.rather then just saying it all just B.S

 

Well no I see I made a mistake in sharring the theory that there may not actually be any Terrier in the A.P.B.T as the name indicates.The Bulldog ,small whene compared to the size of the dogs that went into its genetic make up,did not get smaller as I wrongfully stated, but rather the number of smaller dogs increased for use in dog on dog fighting events,after Bull baiting events were made illegal,and dogs started being matched according to weight,before bull baiting was made illegal,whoever had the biggest game dogs ruled,the dog on dog fighting events.Bulls outweighed bulldogs by almost a ton so,there was no foreseen reason to match according to weight,whene it came to dog on dog fighting events,however after Bull baiting became illegal and dogs were isolated to only fighting other dogs people started to see that a game 42 lb winner of 5 matches where gameness played a role, was far more valuable then a 80lb non game winner of two fights and a loser of one,not only that but they were easier to handle and train as well,so dogs started being matched according to weight.

 

Nobody cares

 

Thats why A.P.B.T often lead in fatal attack statistics on humans.

 

The reason for that is actually people that think they can properly train and maintain a bulldog . this topic has been disputed before...to no avail. pleanty of historical documents. to prove otherwise. get real and do more reading.

 

So how would they have got gamer, if they weren't game in the first place?

 

Im not sure I understand ur question, my post that you quoted was about size not gameness ,what I think you may be referring to ,is that,whene not matched by size a larger game dog has a considerable advantage over another game dog that is smaller,however dog that is game regardless of size has a considerable advantage over a dog that is not game,because Gameness is the most important trait required a fighting dog ,as illegal dogfighting records show,unfortunantly through loop holes in the freedom of speech act( I say unfortunatly because its to bad that it has to be done through loop holes and just cant be sharred freely)twice as many dog fights are long drawn out affairs where gameness becomes a factor in the outcome,rather then one dog just coming out and beating its opponent in 20 minutes or so due to its physical abilities such as speed, strength ,hard bite,fighting inteligence,and stamina,,and although dogs whene illegaly fought today are matched according to weight ,size also would be a major factor,not as major as gameness but major all the same.

 

Or was you referring to my example of a dog fighter finding a 42 lb game dog winner of 5 matches where gameness played a role, being more worthy then a 80 lb non game winner of two and a loser of one,well regardless of its size a non game dog generaly would be taken out of the breeding program all together,regardless of how long it had fought before as well as how much physical trauma it was able to withstand in earlier fights ,generaly a dog is considered game or at least a prospect, untill it shows that it is not by quitting in a fight.this is the general rule but not always the Rule.A 80 lb winner of two that had fought for a long time and happily withstood extremely severe physical trauma, would be a valuable dog,had it not proven itself "not game" by losing,it would just be a hard dog to condition and handle,its size would have no bearring on the outcome of a fight since matches are now according to weight,well experience is also another variable.

 

The A.P.B.T according to the American Temperment Testing Society,has a very good Temperment,even better then Golden Retrievers,and since most geneticists agree that Temperment is hereditory then training cannot be attributed to it possesing such a good temperment,the A.T.T.S test does support the theory that it is the popularity of the breed at the time that Fatal human attacks statistics associated with domestic dog breeds are taken,for people that want to use them as gaurd dogs ,for even professionaly trained gaurd dogs usually bite their owner ,family member or friend then they bite would be burgulars or assailants,their are of course other reasons A.P.B.T lead in fatal attack statistics but this is the main one

 

I think that statistic is a bunch of bs. thanks for sharing. again 90 percent of the issue is the people that do not undetstand. i have. seen way worse dogs tham an apbt. again. you are providing stats made by ignorant media with morives. cheers

 

Your posts don't make sense, what book did you read now, that changed your point of view.....

If you want to fish, try a lake......

 

Lil Bulldog versus Big Bulldog, see what happens

[video=youtube;RSS1zh45Fts]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSS1zh45Fts[/video]

 

My Point of view has not changed on many of the topics concerning Game bred A.P.B.T,All I do is take the information I have read or was told by reputable dog breeders , theoreticly connect the dots and share it with you,if I was led to believe something that was not true then I would hope that you would point out where I am wrong and then I can try and correct my mistakes,or if I am right and you are the one who has it all wrong then you could do the same.Speaking of theories,I would like to remind people that the idea that Bulldogs were bred to Terriers for the Bulldogs benifits is not based on non debatable facts,it is based on hand written accounts by historicle figures,accounts wich many like myself believe may actually be mistaken for the history of the Bull Terrier and not the A.P.B.T.Hand wriiten accounts are considered by many historians to be the worst form of historicle evidence for it is often hard to understand what exactly they are trying to describe,should you share undebateable evidence with me that Bulldogs were crossed into Terrier to benifit the Bulldog and not the Terrier,then I would hope that you would share it with me,however untill now I have seen no evidence,that proves that the evidence that I have learned is incorrect and as of now, my point of view has not changed on the subject.

 

Troy Townsend I don't want to come across as being overly critical but the way you write makes it seem like you're talking out your ass.

 

Troy, the reason for the addition of terrier blood was its ability to PUNISH. As the saying goes " enough bull to bear, enough terrier to inflict". Simple.