Bulldog EDITION - Richard F. Stratton

The idea that the Terrier was crossed into the bulldog to give it more agility,was fuel for a good debate on accounts that The ancestor of the Bulldog,fought lions ,Tigers and Bears in ancient Roman fighting arenas,and had aquired through years of breeding for these combats ,super fighting abilities to do so,of course it was not the slow and passive that survived these battles to be bred but it was the nimble and Tenacious.But to state that the Bulldog needed to be improved on in the tenacity Department,by a Terrier non the less a dog that aquired its traits from fighting ground vermin fox and badger,in my opinion cannot be described as a simple easy to obsorb,theory,not whene the Bulldog got its fighting traits from its ancestors that fought Bears,Lions and Bulls.

 

Not what you think,if the big bulldog is a big Cur.

 

The A.T.T S is not a Media source

 

What do you think of the lil one, is he game?

 

Lad, Nobody said that the bulldog needed to be improved on in the tenacity department, use your head...that's what's it for...

The terrier is game for it's purpose, that's all i said.....The APBT is the gamest animal alive.... i would have thought that the main quality for fighting lions was gameness not superior fighting abilities, a bulldog ain't going to beat a lion, i ain't going to beat Floyd M in a boxing match unless it becomes a ????

 

Use my head,Use your eyes,Tigerlines clearly stated that the reason for terrier blood being added was for its ability to punish........I..uhhh...Thank you.

 

You would have thought right,Dogs used in ancient roman fighting arenas did not work alone,of course they had help and they did at times win, and although gameness was a far more important trait for them to have to get the job done they did also aquire super canine like fighting abilities .The ancestor of domestic dogs the wolf had to kill formidable prey such as Bison Elk Deer Ox and they also had to fight food competitors such as bear ,wolverines Cougurs and other wolves,but no animal was matched into such formidable animals, and as many times ,and as consistantly such has the ancestors of the A.P.B.T

 

What lil one ,these are hypothetical examples,the lil one as you say can be whatever you want it to be,Game or cur.

 

Anyway i have to quit keeping these tweaker hours,I have to get up early tomorrow.Im curious though how do you pronounce Torresbeag

 

That is not the same thing as improving tenacity or gameness, think about it

 

What i don't get in this debate is, where are these game mollossor breeds now??

In general terms, is the APBT as a breed better than it was 100 years when they were becoming popular in the USA?

Why are breeders trying to recreate the bulldog ie, Johnson's, Scotts etc?

What are breeds being used in outcrosses for the above?

When the matching of dogs became popular, where did the bulldogs go? game bulldogs not the show type

Why wasn't the bulldog used for legal dog matches, when is became popular in the 1800 pits?

 

Torres (as in the footballer) Beag, phonetically is pronounced beogh

 

Troy  by the time the crossings were recognised in both art and literature the bull dog was near extinction, as were bull baits lion fights bear baits etc .The terriers used  in said crossings were long established killing machines in the pit usually with bull blood already added and were frequently referred to as bull dogs anyway .the cross made sense.

 

Its clear that u have no clue. please do more research before u post. u r preaching bs on
Ears that done heard an debated these ramblings until they go by by.
now give us something new please.

 

Nobody is debating that the Bulldog and the Terrier were crossed,so of course there would be artist renditions of the dogs that were crossed and hand written accounts of the cross ,from historicle figures at the time the crosses were being made. I am however one of the few that believe this to actually be the history of the Bull terrier and not that of the A.P.B.T.The A.P.B.T is, I believe ,to be the Bulldog that you stated was near extinction.The cross made sense for the benifit of the Terrier but not the Bulldogs ,for the Bulldog was already small compared to the dogs that went into its genetic make up ,and nimble,unlike the Terrier however, the Bulldog was also powerfull deep game and had a prey drive that only lions Bears and bulls in ancient roman fighting arenas could have caused,traits that a terrier could use for its ratting and ground hunting activities,all the terrier could do for the Bulldog was take away from its painthreshold that it aquired from its ancestors having been bred to fight Lions Bulls and bears in ancient fighting arenas.Only a small nimble durable powerfull ,intelligent dog with a strong prey drive could survive the Roman fighting arena era and you can bet Im not talking about the ancestors of the Terrier.I dont mean to take nothing away from the Terrier, like Torresbeag stated earlier the Terrier was brave for what it had to do,its just that theres a major difference between Ground prey and Lions ,Bears and Bulls.

 

I wish I was a cutting edge dogman that could share something new,but im not ,all I can do is gather information on the breed,through the freedom of speech act ,and debate trivial topics like this one,Its trivial to me at this time for I do have more important issues in my life as im sure most of us do,I guess it will matter somwhere down the line,in helping man solve problems with the domestic dog ,exspecialy fatal human attacks,all it does for me now is it gives my mind something to do whene Im not dealing with more important issues.

 

From the info, i could glean the molloser's of the roman era, where not small and nimble........

 

No but where are they now Extinct ,because they were to big and slow to survive ancient Roman fighting arenas,except for the genetic traits that they left behind in todays game bred A.P.B.T

 

Troy those near extinct bull dogs had considerably evolved from the ancient mastiffs of rome into specialised bull baiting dogs bred to hold pull and to pin via the snout hold. Dogs such as crib and rosa, wasp child and billy,  bear little resemblance to either ancient roman dogs or the APBT. as for the history of the bull terrier you acknowlede the cross but you havent explained why such a breed was created if not for the pit? Its depicted in art around 1802 dogs such  as belcher the winner of over 100 battles ,long before hinks made his crosses to produce the all white strain.  

 

intrestinlgy enough I found a carving on the side of a sarcophagus that dipicted two dogs attacking a armord man,in a book titled Ancient Roman art by Bernard Andrea,that look just like two modern day Pitbulls My computer is not set up to post picture though.So although many different dogs went into the genetic make up of the A.P.B.T of all shapes and sizes they all pretty much started to look like the Modern A.P.B.T near the end of the Roman fighting arena era,theoreticaly that is I take it that you did not read the opening thread because Richard stratton shares,how there may have been two Bulldogs One used for Bull baiting and one as a house pet,the short nose ones being the house pets and the longer nosed ones like the dipictions that I found in Bernard Andreas book and the ones that Richard Stratton shares in his many books or the ones showed earlier at the begenning of this post section.Belcher had no pedigree on him so there is no telling what he actually was,and like I said if you had read the opening thread by Richard Stratton you would see his explanation wich was basicaly that the Bulldog Terrier cross was made for the benifit of the Terrier not the Bulldogso as to help the terrier succed in ratting ,Ground hunts and badger baiting events,but the Terrier could not contribute to the Bulldog for it already was small and nimble,for large slow passive dogs did not survive the Roman fighting pits and having been fought against larger Formidable prey they also did not need help in the animal agression department,,.......is there a echoe in here.......Hello ..... ..HELLO... HEllo ...Hello...hello..