Colbys "Emjay"

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

No it doesn't.
If you breed xx dog to a yy dogs the pups have a 50/50 chance of being black nose or red nose.
Example, if Red Boy is bred as said, then how was he a red nose dog?

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

Knightmare, an xx dog bred to a yy dog cannot produce a red-nosed pup. It is genetically impossible. The only possible combination the pups can possess is xy. Therefore, if a black-nosed dog produces a red-nosed pup, he must be xy. Bear in mind that a recessive trait can lie dormant for several generations before reappearing.

On a side note: I thought Red Boy's pedigree was generally considered bogus.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

No it means the pups will have a mixture of both black nose and red nose genes and either one can be present in the pups because y gene is recessive and can appear at any time.
The only way to insure all the pups will be black nose is if both dogs are xx.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

I'll use an example. A few years ago I bred my Red Boy bred red-nosed male (yy) to my black-nosed Chinaman bitch. My bitch had at least one red-nosed ancestor close up in her pedigree, so I wondered if she was carrying the recessive gene. She threw 8 black-nosed pups, so I can say with near certainty that she is a xx dog, and not carrying the recessive trait. If she was an xy dog then each pup would have a 50/50 chance that they would be get the yy gene combination and thus be red-nosed. While it's possible to flip a coin 8 times and get 8 heads or 8 tails, the odds of that happening are minute. Therefore I can say with about 99% certainty that my Chinaman bitch is not carrying the red gene.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

This will be my last post on the subject as it seems that Knightmare is getting a little upset. Each parent contributes one gene for nose color. If a pup has one x and one y gene then they will be black nosed. That is why it's called dominant.

Explain to me Knightmare how an xx bred to an yy can produce anything other than the combination of xy? If you can figure that out then I'm sure you're destined for a Nobel Prize.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

You have zero comprehension of statistics.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

Really? Enlighten me then Inter-tel. BTW, I'm in a second year university stats course right now, so I welcome a debate.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

Red Boy isn't yy dog. He is an xy dog.
ahhhhhhh some people will never get it.
Why she produced all black nose is because black nose is the dominate gene!!!!
A dog can not discard a recessive gene or all congenial faults could be excluded from all bloodlines.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

Wow, I am already a university grad.
Comprehension isn't always from books but does have to come with some common sense.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

If I'm not mistaken, the odds of flipping a coin and getting the same result 8 times is 2 to the power of 8 = 1/256 = .0039. Therefore, I can say with 99.61% certainty that my Chinaman bitch is xx. Does that sound right Inter-tel?

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

then you understand what 1% is.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

I'm not sure what you mean by "have the recessive gene", but if it is indeed a recessive gene, then by definition both parents have to be carrying it, but not necessarily displaying it. As such, you can get a red n from a blk n x red n as you are saying only if the blk n is a carrier. In the same way, you could get it from a blk n x blk n as long as they each are carriers.

If you have produced red n from a red n x a dog that has no red nose in it's background(as suspected of a pure Colby dog), then that would mean that red n is not a true recessive gene.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

I doubt it will be the last.
Nope not upset at all.
Just trying to make myself a little clearer to read.

"If a pup has one x and one y gene then they will be black nosed. That is why it's called dominant."

But when you include into the equation of the y gene then all bets are off and the dam who is yy can produce a yy pup when bred to xx male.
Whether or not it is xy or yx genetic make up.
Any breeding, including 2 yy dogs will never radiate the xx gene from its genetic makeup.
This is why I include the possibility of mutation.
Mutation would not accrue if the xx was radiated.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

I'm not sure what you mean by "have the recessive gene", but if it is indeed a recessive gene, then by definition both parents have to be carrying it, but not necessarily displaying it. As such, you can get a red n from a blk n x red n as you are saying only if the blk n is a carrier. In the same way, you could get it from a blk n x blk n as long as they each are carriers.

Robber's got it.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

But when you include into the equation of the y gene then all bets are off and the dam who is yy can produce a yy pup when bred to xx male.

How do you argue with that? Apparrently 2+2 can equal 3 in your world.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

great debate... thanks guys (or gals)... good reading...

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

Red nose gene is recessive gene.
No only one parent has to carry it.
It doesn't matter if the mother or father is red nose or black nose if either one has the recessive gene there is a possibility of a pup being produced with a red nose.
You have to apply recessive genes the same way.
If a pup ends up with slip knee which is recessive fault then both sides has to had the recessive gene? NO!

Understand this, recessive genes, whether it is nose of congenital faults it
doesn't matter, both parents do not have to have the recessive gene for the recessive trait to appear.
Sooner or later all recessive genes in any dog will appear no matter what the genetic make up is of the other dog.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

Must you be insulting or is it because of your lack of breeding experience and you can only rely on what you read in a book?

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

" but if it is indeed a recessive gene, then by definition both parents have to be carrying it,"

No both don't.

" As such, you can get a red n from a blk n x red n as you are saying only if the blk n is a carrier"

NO I am not saying that. I saying both parents have equal possible of producing in a litter whether they are black nose xx and the other is black nose xy. So long as the red nose y gene is present in the genetic make up there is a possibility of a pup being red nose.

"In the same way, you could get it from a blk n x blk n as long as they each are carriers."

The only way a red nsoe pup can be produced from 2 black nose dogs is if one of them has the recessive gene.

 

Re: Colbys "Emjay"

In that case, neither one has to have it to produce it. You are talking about a mutation. You could breed two solid black dogs and get an albino dog and it wouldn't mean one of the parents was carrying it - it would just be a one in a million type thing - a mutation.

Red nose gene is recessive gene.
No only one parent has to carry it.

That is a contradiction. If only one parent has to have it, then red n is not a recessive gene.