Cross vs Pure

lol..."you can turn a apbt into a german shephard" yeah some ol' legendary breeder said it (perhaps Heinzl ?) but I took it as a figure of speech...care to name anyone who has proven that as a fact lmfao...sorry I can't prove you wrong because I believe your generally right and besides it's not my intention to come away looking like a "winner" over someone else's point of view...I myself use the same terminology already expressed in this thread to describe a pedigree but I'm always open to learning new ones...thanks for your reply BB.

 

please just let this thread die, i doubt anything else informative is gonna be said...

 

Since you are scooling me on dogs most of tyhe dogs you are talking about are crosses. I have been breeding my own dogs for a long time over 20years I know what a cross and pure strain is and I know how to breed and make dogs that hunt and NO one has pure any thing my have tight but not pure . Hell Some of my dogs have had 6 gen with my fam name would you say they are pure Jackson dogs. lol

 

i was not schooling you on anything and everydog i mentioned was linebred, tornado was line bred butcherboy was linebred, zebo was actually heavily in bred of of snow ball, bb red and banjo were line bred, buck was inbred on bolio, rasca,l pedro, gr ch sir dog , and happy jack. i was not saying they are pure but i was saying there is no need to consistently out cross and linebreeding is by the far the most sucessfukll way to breed, the dogs i mentioned are some of if not the best box dogs in history just as good if not better than any outcrossed dog, ppl think breeding is a crapshoot because that is what they were told but in reality if you focus on whole liters and not just individuals and evaluate each liter and choose for traits that that line is known for and when you breed only linebreed of liters that carry a high percent of what you are brfeeding for it becomes much more scientific than your average breeder who does not no his ass from his elbow

 

breeding becomes a crapshoot when you continously cross hounds. When you breed and linebreed a family of dogs or a litter or "Top" dog you tend to know what you are getting after a few generations, they become almost uniform. Most dogs are loose linebred like for example the "boyles or WCC" dogs that were Eli x Bolio x Boomerang.. You dont have to cross them to a Jeep/Redboy dog to add something when there are other dogs in that family that could give you the same thing.. Not saying crosses dont work, couldnt work, havent been work or wont work going forward but when you linebreed your family you tend to know what you are getting. Most successful programs over the years have used a linebreeding tool with a few inbreedings. Most have several tight bred dogs and find them a cross and then linebreed whether its loose linebreeding or tight..Sorry wasnt able to read all posts taking too much time to load so hope I'm not too far off key and this is no disrespect to anyone nor sarcasm..

 

I stand corrected, good post by both boze and rock n rye

 

Well, what would you consider rbj/buck jeep/rascal/boyles going into eli/carver considered scatterbred or battlecrossed. Speaking on what the lines go back to

 

Can't say without knowing how the dogs bred, show the ped

 

I mean most will say they all go back Pilot or 80% go back to Dibo, so shoul we all call em Dibo dogs like Don did.. Lines become seperated when certain dogs or litters are singled out and bred around.. We normally pick lines because of previous dogs or traits for those hounds.. People hear Frisco they think hard mouth, power.. Redboy/Jocko - rough dogs above average mouth Eli- powerfu, mouth.. When you cross dogs some do it just to do and some do to strategically add something to their hounds.. Jeep was a shoulder punisher and slid up on the side of head from what I remember being told. Most Jeep hounds I seen were in shoulders wrecking front end and working up side of head.. Good athletes, string and quick, not fast but quick.. Then Jeep/Redboy or Jeep/Redboy/Rascal were more head riders and not that good mouth on average, it would pop up but just not on average unless heavy dose of Rascal.. Cross it further and you will will catch more traits and more.. Most like head dogs or face dogs, or backend dogs some like powerful brute some don't care long as they keep scratching.. When you want certain things you probalu get a line that has it and breed that trait.. Will be hard to do with cross cross cross, but when you breed your hounds and you linebreeding and/or inbreeding you tend to know what to expect because litter after litter you will get body technicians or head riders or backend dogs.. Hard to do that with crossing every generation.. Just my opinion...

 

I luv a pure Bred dog u jus hve to knw when to crown nd wat traits rvu trying to obtain

 

preach on brother

 

Lol ppls these days lol

 

Reason for adding a different pool of genes aka crossing another line is Hybrid Vigor.

Reason to keep a line tight, same gene pool, is to get similar dogs each litter. Once you achieve good dogs each litter you can out cross and get serious animals. However repeating this down from of spring tends to be the problem.

Tight lines retain attributes

Crosses get hybrid vigor

You have to line bred these crosses to maintain attributes.


BASICALLY WITH OUT GOING TO THE BOOKS

 

I like mine "pure" or maybe the term you're meanin is tight, so that I can start with as "blank" a slate as possible and then cross em up the way I want to cross em up with the dogs I want to cross em to.

 

ok lets talk about reading a ped you still never answered me I have had and have dogs with my name infront of 6 gen would you say that is a pure jackson dog??? or would you go back to dibo to prove a point? What I am saying is its all bullshit, if you didnt stickem you dont know shit. There is NO PURE. tight yes line breed inbreed yess but pure no! Also of thoseexamples I can point one out that They have no fuckin idea how that dog is bred and people have asked me to find that pure for them LMFAO

 

well i agree pure but when i say pure i mean inbred or linebred not crossed nothing more. as far as whether the peds are fake or not well i can only go by what is written all i am saying is crossed dogs are no better than linebred or inbred dogs and from what i have seen from so top breeders is linebreeding works better than crosses

 

What if you're refering to a "family" of dogs as the line and not just one dog. Would you refer to that dog as being "pure" in that way? Ex- sorrells bred dogs. Sure they started from different lines but after 6-8 gens of dogs with the sorrell name and bred by them, how would that be described?

 

Nver mind. Just reread jjj post again...slowly this time.......and I figured it out.

 

in order to get crossed you have to have some pure, in order to have pure u have to breed some pure... i personally have 2 sets of pure families that i breed that i cross back and forth.

 

You should breed to upgrade your dogs at all times say your dogs have a great bite but lack endurance ,so you should find a dog with a good bite that can go an hour ,and about 25% of the litter will have all the points you are looking for above all else never breed a stupid dog or one with known faults weak bite ,short life, bad hips no matter what papers they bring or claim always inspect the dogs close it will take 5-7 to 12 years to get to a top choice dog but thru careful choices you will get there and time fly's by faster then you think and I would advise anyone pay alittle more than you would like and get a better dog .But always be careful with your choice people who just want papers on papers to make money are not real dog people The breed has to come first.. My dog was up on a kingfish which was supposed to be top notch and the guy paid $$$ His King fish stopped 20 in..so papers and pure bred don't always mean much in the real world Good luck Ronald Roscoe