"Gameness" A dying trait?

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I think my point was that "matching" has become so shady, with no central reporting authority that the use of matching and gametesting is
OVERALL reduced as "proving". What I mean is you can have now "fake" champions since things are so fragmented. A dog that has beaten unworthy competition hasn't proven anything. But as fragmented as things are that is likely all too common. And add to that we talk about gameness, but again I'd bet that mouth is the main thing being bred for now.

I just don't see it as the end all be all for producing great dogs. What I mean is that "gamebred" isn't the same as it used to be, even when speaking of "proven" dogs. Except in rare cases where you are dealing with people who have real integrity. I view the process as it stands now as so corrupted that folks with real integrity, although they do exist are a rarity. And I suspect the overall quality of the gamebred dog is reduced, except as regards mouth.


WOW:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: the hits just keep on coming. We have an EXPERT here folks. Everyone breeds gamedogs for mouth and bloodlust nowdays and it almost impossible to find a proven dog as well. r u f'n kidding me???:rolleyes::rolleyes:

All I hear is "suspect" and "opinion". How did u come to theese conclusions?? T.V? Internet? this forum??

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Good post penn. There have been cases of people purposely matching into inexperienced owners with push over dogs just to get their dog a CH. title. I have also heard of 2 friends matching into one another's inferior dog to get a CH. So unless you know the owner well, the CH. might be worthless. As I once heard the saying - "How can you brag if you've got the best turd out of four? It's still a turd." lol ...

Now are there legit dogs out there? Sure. But it's certainly not like the days of old when men were men & champions were champions.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

BULL$hit...... The past and present havent changed. Liars and cheaters have always been part of the game. Please dont try to make it sound like there is a big difference between now and then. If anything IMO the game has gotten better in some areas (dogs) from 40-50 yrs ago. People are still people no matter how much time passes.

I get so tired of hearing "gentlemen" "honor" "pride" etc... when describing dogmen of the past like they were saints. If anything it was more wild back in the day cause police and HS didnt give a shit about the dogs and it was easier to get away with murder.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I don't know. Maybe I am looking at the past with rose colored glasses. But from my perspective a LOT has changed. Did you have your cheats, liars & criminals back then? Sure. But not nearly as many as you do now.

As for the police not being involved, what makes you think that? Many officers owned & matched game dogs so they were quite involved indeed. Heck if my memory is correct the first mag to report pit dog results was called the Police Gazette. lol. So I think they were involved, even more so in the fact that they had a personal stake in the matter.

Further, I will again point out in pre '76 ear matching was still not legal in all areas. Matches were still raided & dogs confiscated.

As for HS, no, they didn't care, but the dog men did. They treated their match dogs well. They wouldn't abuse them or not care for them.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I was about to say the same thing about the police.

IMO, I've always heard the old days were alot more different that today. Police were involved back then, as well as lawyers, politicians and mayors. I also heard things were more organized and secure.

Nowadays, there is more money involved and too many people involved. There is also a felony charge and a $5,000 bounty on anyone involved. So now if you piss someone off they get a friend to turn you in because they get to split 5 grand.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

All we hear about of the old-timers, was what they wanted us to hear. LOL

It's the "back then" mentality, things weren't better than, but it's certainly nice to think they were.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

What ever makes you feel better about what your doing. Understand this with out the gamedog the APBT will cease to exist, you will be left with type dogs. Once the gamedog is gone...they can have your petbulls.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

no, i don't believe it's a dying trait.

there are other parts of the world (and i'm sure parts of our country, too) that are breeding for that trait, knowing the rest will fall into place if they breed for gameness first and let everything else happen.

overseas seems to be in their "golden age" of matching....importing dogs from dogmen years ago and putting a lot of work into their stock. everything is documented, video taped, and out in the open in other parts of the world.

it seems to me that to have any merit over there depends on whether you went into credible competition or not. iono if it was the same here 50-60-70 years ago. but in recent history before (and after) it became illegal on a federal level to match dogs that seemed to be what mattered most here as well. anyone can say they have a dog who's a (insert self-proclaimed title here). but without a legitimate checks and balances, no one will ever know (unless they're supposed to, right?).

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

so what if your dog game tests accidentally? Like say you are in a situation where a dog is about to attack you or your dog and your dog takes the challenge and fights the other. Is that a real life game test. Could you determine your dog's gameness from that?

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

No, not unless the dog running lose is a proven gamedog, who puts yours behind for a period of time, and you break them up and allow him to scratch.

If a proven gamedog stray attacks you, you break them up by yourself (you see how unlikely this is getting?) and let yours scratch back a few times, I'm damn sure someone by now has noticed, and you're going to jail while your dog goes to the euthanasia clinic.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Jeep This Is One Exelent Post.
This Right here is the real truth!

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I want to thank the op for starting this thred. This is great discussion. Best thread in a long time. Big Game

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

What we believe is happening is bad breeding habits. The dogs being bred for profit and status, and not using the strict standards that had been adhere to i nn the past, Novice breeders worrying about color, size of head, and peple thinking bigger meansbetter, People breeding what they conceive to be the flavor of the month, putting dogs in the wrong people hands for the almighty dollar even though it wasent best for thr overall breed.IMHO its not the people that have matched ther dogsin contest 1975 and much more before that time.thats takin its toll on this breed of dog today, its the ones that have never done ssnything with the dogsthinkin they are a novelty taking its toll.Facts are there was never a problem with a breedof dogs for hundred of yearswhen in the hand of real dogmen and real dog people.Then in steps the novice and the people who claimthey know whats best for the breed and it has been problems with this noble breed,

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Hi, I also want to thank for this thread... It opened my mind for many things... some posts here are really great!
Here in my country dog-fights are also illegal but actually the situtation is not so "dangerous" like in US... it is always dangerous and against the law, but here matches never was so big part of "dark part" of our society so police and so on is not so "susspision" ...
And what I see in breedings here, yes they are mostly made on this trait, but also are breedings with good sports dog, but also these dogs mostly are checked for their courage, and readiness to fight...

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

years ago john q. public still had this breed of dog. it was never "just real dogmen" that had it in their hands. i've seen photos dated as early as the 1890s to the present where non-doggers had apbts.

at least this is what my research has shown me.

but i do agree it's unqualified people perpetuating bad habits that don't need to that are ruining them.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

That is very true. But years ago people who had pitbulls who were not dogmen probably had some experence with animals and dogs. You didn't have people who were real unfamiliar with animals having pitbulls in crowded conditions in anything like the numbers we see now.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I didnt say a word about dog on dog anything. Everyone has there own theory as to what gameness is and how to figure out if your stock has it. I dont fight dogs, or condone anything illegal.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I agree somewhat. There was much more honor back in the day than there is now IMO. The scene is over run with gangsters and thugs. Ive been out by P. Sparks' old place and he would shit a 6 foot long purple twinky if he saw what his neighborhood has gone to. Its fastlane, no doubt about it, but its not what it was. Gentlemen are most definately a thing of the past in those parts. They're not bad guys persay, just not what it was 30 years ago. The game has evolved into a big ass DMX video in many parts of the country. :rolleyes:

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

It occurs to me on re-reading my post that I should have drawn a distinction between gametesting and matching. I'm sure there are some breeders not involved in "the game" who gametest out of concern for the preservation of the breed. And to me that is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Thank you for clairifying.